Combine????? - Page 2

Dick Butler · 07-22-2008, 02:32 PM

"BETTER FOR THE SPORT" How many people commenting on these threads can honestly claim they are discussing with this in mind?
If you use the words "dont put MY car in that class" Or dont make "me " do anything you are missing the point of the discussions. Improving the SPORT IS THE TOPIC. Dont let Class racing be taken away from you. Dont let the people who ONLY want to Bracket race at an NHRA event minimize your hard work and expenses because tomorrow could be worse.Maybe no heads up in Eliminator. Maybe just ONLY bracket cars and Bracket racing to save money on Tech or time at events or space or prize money. Maybe More and more loosening of rules for less tech pressure.
Work to keep the value of Class cars and Class racing while you can have input....if you can agree it can be" BETTER FOR THE SPORT."

Michael Beard · 07-22-2008, 03:45 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with full-pound weight breaks.

In regards to Sticks vs Autos, the devil is in the details, although I think it's worth noting that if the class index is the same or within .05, that you should be able to combine the classes with a slight weight break one way or the other, depending on which class index is higher or lower.

As Billy pointed out, the cars are factored separately. If the cars have the same index (see caveat above), there's no reason why they the cars shouldn't run together. If the parity isn't there, then theoretically, the combinations are not factored properly.

$.02,

X-TECH MAN · 07-22-2008, 03:53 PM

Just a short history lesson.....IHRA made the stock and S/S classes all 1 lb. breaks back in the mid to late seventies era fpr one season and the racers cried so much (hummmm, sounds familiar) about either not being able to get lite enough or they moaned about thier cars having to carry to much weight. They couldnt make anyone happy 30 years ago so whats new? Back then the trans technology wasnt what it is today so that was never concidered.

TGould · 07-22-2008, 04:53 PM

Terry, that was the 70s. In 1978, NHRA said you could add or subtract 75 pounds to fit the class. Then in 1981, NHRA said "shippng weight may be adjusted - 75 lbs or plus 150 lbs". In 1989, NHRA said "Weight may be adjusted +/- 150 lbs to fit natural class or down one class". But, now with NHRA allowing any amount of weight to be added or subtracted, racers often talk about how much weight they are carrying (300- 500 pounds in some cases) or how much they took out for a heads up run.

CycloneFE · 07-22-2008, 08:29 PM

With all the talk of adding classes(Sport Compact) and changing the length of the tracks.....

I thought this thread would be about......

NHRA's new Stock Class Combines!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist being from the heartland and all. He He he.

CycloneFE · 07-22-2008, 09:21 PM

What is the shipping weight of a New Holland?

What is it's Horsepower rating?

Would that be considered front wheel drive?

I need sleep...

Ed Wright · 07-22-2008, 09:34 PM

As Billy Nees and Michael Beard stated, the hp factors should help even it out if combined. Might take a while for some combos, but if guys are having to run flat out to win rounds I would not think it would take all that long to find out how fast they can run and level the field. It would sure make better racing, and be much more interesting to watch. For the non-bracket-lovers much more interesting to race.

I know I'm not all that fast, (I'm still working on that) but I would rather get flat out run than have to go home because I ran too fast, like 1st round at Memphis.

Again, I'm only talking about Super Stock, so Stock guys please don't jump on me. I'm old.

Jim Wahl · 07-22-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

"BETTER FOR THE SPORT" How many people commenting on these threads can honestly claim they are discussing with this in mind?
If you use the words "dont put MY car in that class" Or dont make "me " do anything you are missing the point of the discussions. Improving the SPORT IS THE TOPIC. Dont let Class racing be taken away from you. Dont let the people who ONLY want to Bracket race at an NHRA event minimize your hard work and expenses because tomorrow could be worse.Maybe no heads up in Eliminator. Maybe just ONLY bracket cars and Bracket racing to save money on Tech or time at events or space or prize money. Maybe More and more loosening of rules for less tech pressure.
Work to keep the value of Class cars and Class racing while you can have input....if you can agree it can be" BETTER FOR THE SPORT."

Dick I might ask you the same question. How many times must you be told, most combs involved in Stock today do not fit into your elite "heads up" agenda? Now I have no problem with doing it in ADDITION to the normal Stock/Super Stock eliminator. However, to just come out and eliminate the combos that don't fit your idea of racing is just flat wrong! How dare you say I or anyone else can not say "don't eliminate my car from racing " that is also just as wrong! I have already complimented you and Dave on getting these classes recognized, but the huge majority of combos running today can not and will not fit into your elite group and I for one resent the fact you do not care about THEM, the majority. So I believe I am looking out for the betterment of the sport. Jim

Rory McNeil · 07-23-2008, 01:59 AM

Heres an idea, how about leaving Stock alone for a few years, instead of constantly allowing new aftermarket parts that just drive up costs. I just looked at the indexs in National Dragster, I see 51 classes in Stock, 85 classes in S/S, and a whopping 96 classes in Comp. Here in Div.6 at least Stock always has considerably more entrys than S/S, and WAAAY more than Comp, yet there always seems to be people clamoring to reduce the number of classes in Stock, even though Comp has almost twice as many classes, and normally draws less than 1/2 the number of cars at a race! By the way, both S/S as well as Comp have seperate classes for sticks vs auto`s, so why shouldn`t Stock? I started building my Stocker about 8 years ago, and since then all the new accepted stuff is getting silly. Aluminum AFTERMARKET Edelbrock heads and carbs, wheelie bars, "race only" lightweight disc brakes front and rear, $800. lifters, not to mention all the stuff that is allowed that NEVER was produced on so called "factory" cars; I mean a Pinto steering rack on a late model Firebird!! Give me a break!! I know things never seem to go back once changes are implemented, but I wish things were more like they were about 15 years ago.

Jim Wahl · 07-23-2008, 02:03 AM

Very good post Rory! The first thing that should have been done was to take the "Comp & Modified" cars out of Super Stock. They are already in Comp Eliminator and have no reason to be in both. If you want to reduce classes? Start there. Jim

07-22-2008, 02:32 PM	#11
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Combine????? "BETTER FOR THE SPORT" How many people commenting on these threads can honestly claim they are discussing with this in mind? If you use the words "dont put MY car in that class" Or dont make "me " do anything you are missing the point of the discussions. Improving the SPORT IS THE TOPIC. Dont let Class racing be taken away from you. Dont let the people who ONLY want to Bracket race at an NHRA event minimize your hard work and expenses because tomorrow could be worse.Maybe no heads up in Eliminator. Maybe just ONLY bracket cars and Bracket racing to save money on Tech or time at events or space or prize money. Maybe More and more loosening of rules for less tech pressure. Work to keep the value of Class cars and Class racing while you can have input....if you can agree it can be" BETTER FOR THE SPORT."

07-22-2008, 03:45 PM	#12
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Combine????? I wouldn't have a problem with full-pound weight breaks. In regards to Sticks vs Autos, the devil is in the details, although I think it's worth noting that if the class index is the same or within .05, that you should be able to combine the classes with a slight weight break one way or the other, depending on which class index is higher or lower. As Billy pointed out, the cars are factored separately. If the cars have the same index (see caveat above), there's no reason why they the cars shouldn't run together. If the parity isn't there, then theoretically, the combinations are not factored properly. $.02, __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

07-22-2008, 03:53 PM	#13
X-TECH MAN Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Placid, Florida Posts: 3,203 Likes: 1,047 Liked 235 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Combine????? Just a short history lesson.....IHRA made the stock and S/S classes all 1 lb. breaks back in the mid to late seventies era fpr one season and the racers cried so much (hummmm, sounds familiar) about either not being able to get lite enough or they moaned about thier cars having to carry to much weight. They couldnt make anyone happy 30 years ago so whats new? Back then the trans technology wasnt what it is today so that was never concidered.

07-22-2008, 04:53 PM	#14
TGould Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaufort,SC Posts: 145 Likes: 18 Liked 32 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Combine????? Terry, that was the 70s. In 1978, NHRA said you could add or subtract 75 pounds to fit the class. Then in 1981, NHRA said "shippng weight may be adjusted - 75 lbs or plus 150 lbs". In 1989, NHRA said "Weight may be adjusted +/- 150 lbs to fit natural class or down one class". But, now with NHRA allowing any amount of weight to be added or subtracted, racers often talk about how much weight they are carrying (300- 500 pounds in some cases) or how much they took out for a heads up run.

07-22-2008, 08:29 PM	#15
CycloneFE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decatur Illinois Posts: 634 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Combine????? With all the talk of adding classes(Sport Compact) and changing the length of the tracks..... I thought this thread would be about...... NHRA's new Stock Class Combines!!! Sorry, couldn't resist being from the heartland and all. He He he.

07-22-2008, 09:21 PM	#16
CycloneFE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decatur Illinois Posts: 634 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Combine????? What is the shipping weight of a New Holland? What is it's Horsepower rating? Would that be considered front wheel drive? I need sleep...

07-22-2008, 09:34 PM	#17
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Combine????? As Billy Nees and Michael Beard stated, the hp factors should help even it out if combined. Might take a while for some combos, but if guys are having to run flat out to win rounds I would not think it would take all that long to find out how fast they can run and level the field. It would sure make better racing, and be much more interesting to watch. For the non-bracket-lovers much more interesting to race. I know I'm not all that fast, (I'm still working on that) but I would rather get flat out run than have to go home because I ran too fast, like 1st round at Memphis. Again, I'm only talking about Super Stock, so Stock guys please don't jump on me. I'm old. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

07-23-2008, 01:59 AM	#19
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,311 Likes: 315 Liked 1,102 Times in 301 Posts	Re: Combine????? Heres an idea, how about leaving Stock alone for a few years, instead of constantly allowing new aftermarket parts that just drive up costs. I just looked at the indexs in National Dragster, I see 51 classes in Stock, 85 classes in S/S, and a whopping 96 classes in Comp. Here in Div.6 at least Stock always has considerably more entrys than S/S, and WAAAY more than Comp, yet there always seems to be people clamoring to reduce the number of classes in Stock, even though Comp has almost twice as many classes, and normally draws less than 1/2 the number of cars at a race! By the way, both S/S as well as Comp have seperate classes for sticks vs auto`s, so why shouldn`t Stock? I started building my Stocker about 8 years ago, and since then all the new accepted stuff is getting silly. Aluminum AFTERMARKET Edelbrock heads and carbs, wheelie bars, "race only" lightweight disc brakes front and rear, $800. lifters, not to mention all the stuff that is allowed that NEVER was produced on so called "factory" cars; I mean a Pinto steering rack on a late model Firebird!! Give me a break!! I know things never seem to go back once changes are implemented, but I wish things were more like they were about 15 years ago. __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

07-23-2008, 02:03 AM	#20
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,844 Likes: 666 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: Combine????? Very good post Rory! The first thing that should have been done was to take the "Comp & Modified" cars out of Super Stock. They are already in Comp Eliminator and have no reason to be in both. If you want to reduce classes? Start there. Jim __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 NHRA D2 National Open Stock Champion 1982 NHRA D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association. Last edited by Jim Wahl; 07-23-2008 at 04:08 AM.