GT/AA Class War At Indy - Page 10

denny harvey · 08-12-2008, 07:10 PM

just like in PRO/STOCK ,the hemi rules right..lol

Alan Roehrich · 08-12-2008, 08:06 PM

The Chevrolet cars are allowed the Bow Tie block, (stock passenger deck height) and in many cases, the 401 head. I haven't seen where you can really substantially deck a Bow Tie block. I was looking in to doing a big block Super Stock engine not long ago, as our goal is to eventually field a Super Stock Camaro to go along with our Stock Camaro. Admittedly, the 401 head has an exhaust port that is fairly substantially different from the original aluminum head offered on the L-88 and ZL-1, as well as being different from the cast iron heads that came on the 427-425HP engines. The exhaust port has been raised, as well as having the floor raised. However, the intake port retains pretty much the same location and configuration, as it is also legal in Stock and the original intakes as well as the 359 replacement intake fit and line up fine.

Lynn A McCarty · 08-13-2008, 01:16 AM

Cutta,

What do you mean by mineshaft 2000 feet below zero? I would bet at Indy, where the best air is usually around 2500 feet, none of them would even break 9 seconds. As for the BBC's, the bowtie is a way better than stock piece, but nothing to match the short deck hemi's advantage. If they ran a 10.750 deck, that piston looks like the size of my alum trash cans out to the road on Wednesday night. I just wonder what is the shortest deck Hemi out there?

Alan,

The compression height I have heard for most big blocks go about 1.200 minimum.. There is no way the BBC's gain as much in that department compared to Hemi's.

I am no expert, but I would say in the overall scheme the Hemi has gotten the better end of the parts acquisition game. Most people say it takes hard work, maybe so, but firstly it takes parts negotiation and management of those "strokes" of the pen.

In any event I still say a 6.0 GT class with all the factory race combos 420 cu in and up would be about the coolest race I can think to visit Indy. Secondly a 7.0 GT class for large cubic inch engines maybe hypo combos, but not factory race combos.

Alan Roehrich · 08-13-2008, 07:56 AM

The minimum in Stock for a 427 is around 1.735". Now, assuming a stroke of 3.799" and a rod length of 6.135" to remain legal, you're talking about taking 0.535" off of the block to get to 1.200" compression height. At a compression height of 1.735", you're already 0.030" below blueprint deck height which is 9.800. So to get to 1.200" compression height you'd need to get down to a deck height of 9.235", and I'm not sure you can take 0.565" off of a Bow Tie block and keep head gaskets on it. Besides, if you took that much off of it, there'd be no top bolt hole for the water pump, because at 9.800" blueprint height it's probably not 0.375" below the deck. I've seen some of the fastest SS big block Chevy engines in the country, they don't LOOK that heavily altered, and USUALLY I'd see that, there'd be some REAL obvious clues, like the intake touching the timing cover. But maybe I'm blind, or just over looking it.

cutta · 08-13-2008, 10:04 AM

Lynn, I was guessing what they would run say in conditions at a track say 500ft. above sea level with 69 degree, 70% Humidity, 30.1 or higher barometer. But at indy, they would probably squeeze 8.90's. I guess the best person to ask would be Mr. Wescott since he outrunning everything.

But Lynn, the only reason things have gotten so out of hand is do to the fact that all of the Hemi's are racing each other, so if everybody has the same stuff, there is no room to complain. Like I said, NHRA has let them have the most leeway since they no longer have to police them to provide parity with the Chevy's. So I guess, what all the Chevy guys will have to do is submit a proposall to NHRA to allow them some leeway so that they can participate in the SS/AH shootout in the future. I don't mind putting the cars back together in the same class, but I don't want to see a whole bunch whining on either end. Thats what creates the hassle NHRA Tech Dept. goes through to keep parity.

And they do need provide those lower weight breaks for GT. Keep trying, as a fan I would love to see it.
I'll be there with you guys one day, but college is the main focus right now.

Lynn A McCarty · 08-13-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutta

Lynn, I was guessing what they would run say in conditions at a track say 500ft. above sea level with 69 degree, 70% Humidity, 30.1 or higher barometer. But at indy, they would probably squeeze 8.90's. I guess the best person to ask would be Mr. Wescott since he outrunning everything.

But Lynn, the only reason things have gotten so out of hand is do to the fact that all of the Hemi's are racing each other, so if everybody has the same stuff, there is no room to complain. Like I said, NHRA has let them have the most leeway since they no longer have to police them to provide parity with the Chevy's. So I guess, what all the Chevy guys will have to do is submit a proposall to NHRA to allow them some leeway so that they can participate in the SS/AH shootout in the future. I don't mind putting the cars back together in the same class, but I don't want to see a whole bunch whining on either end. Thats what creates the hassle NHRA Tech Dept. goes through to keep parity.

And they do need provide those lower weight breaks for GT. Keep trying, as a fan I would love to see it.
I'll be there with you guys one day, but college is the main focus right now.

8.90's with the 10.750 deck an the old castings? No way!

Cutta, if you remember, you started out talking about how the Hemi's were kicking butt in SS/AA. Now you are saying it doesnt matter because they all run together? Ha Ha, nice try, that is some really good spin.

cutta · 08-13-2008, 04:10 PM

It doesn't, because there is no class war.

Don't forget that none of these Chevy's were running SS/AA when the Hemi's were there. I've only heard a few stories of a Chevy winning the SS/AA class. But Lynn, you've got to remember, I'm a mopar fan and as such, I will always say that a mopar will win. I root for Allen Johnson in Pro Stock at every National event I watch on TV. Do you really think my opinion will change? Believe me, I'm not trying to run around the issue at all. It's just that since every guy in the SS/AH class has the same equipment and parts, no one complains about performance inequality so NHRA lets them have alot of leeway.

Alan Roehrich · 08-13-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutta

It doesn't, because there is no class war.

Don't forget that none of these Chevy's were running SS/AA when the Hemi's were there. I've only heard a few stories of a Chevy winning the SS/AA class. But Lynn, you've got to remember, I'm a mopar fan and as such, I will always say that a mopar will win. I root for Allen Johnson in Pro Stock at every National event I watch on TV. Do you really think my opinion will change? Believe me, I'm not trying to run around the issue at all. It's just that since every guy in the SS/AH class has the same equipment and parts, no one complains about performance inequality so NHRA lets them have alot of leeway.

What's REALLY funny about that is the group of Mopar guys that were evidently so scared of Scott Wilcox and Tony Rhodes that they campaigned successfully to get the 67 L-88 Corvette that had been run for years removed from the class guide.

cutta · 08-13-2008, 08:30 PM

Mr. Alan, that was probably before my time. I'm only 21! I would really like to see the class wars come back, but whiners from both sides will probably kill it before it happens. Would be interesting though!

Alan Roehrich · 08-13-2008, 08:47 PM

I'm just Alan, nobody special, and no need for "Mr." Actually it didn't happen all that long ago. I think Travis Miller (NHRA Tech man) posted on this not too long ago. It happened about the time SS/AH was created. Or not long before. It might not have been Travis, I couldn't find the post in a quick search. By the way, it was GM that eventually said there were only 36 of the 67 L-88 cars produced. That seems odd, and a very low number, since I know of 2 of the original cars within 50-60 miles of me, but it is documentation GM provided. I know both Tony and Scott, they both raced local here.

08-12-2008, 07:10 PM	#91
denny harvey Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: pataskala ohio Posts: 132 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy just like in PRO/STOCK ,the hemi rules right..lol

08-12-2008, 08:06 PM	#92
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,111 Likes: 1,570 Liked 1,812 Times in 413 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy The Chevrolet cars are allowed the Bow Tie block, (stock passenger deck height) and in many cases, the 401 head. I haven't seen where you can really substantially deck a Bow Tie block. I was looking in to doing a big block Super Stock engine not long ago, as our goal is to eventually field a Super Stock Camaro to go along with our Stock Camaro. Admittedly, the 401 head has an exhaust port that is fairly substantially different from the original aluminum head offered on the L-88 and ZL-1, as well as being different from the cast iron heads that came on the 427-425HP engines. The exhaust port has been raised, as well as having the floor raised. However, the intake port retains pretty much the same location and configuration, as it is also legal in Stock and the original intakes as well as the 359 replacement intake fit and line up fine. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

08-13-2008, 01:16 AM	#93
Lynn A McCarty Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plainfield (INDY) Indiana Posts: 468 Likes: 1 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy Cutta, What do you mean by mineshaft 2000 feet below zero? I would bet at Indy, where the best air is usually around 2500 feet, none of them would even break 9 seconds. As for the BBC's, the bowtie is a way better than stock piece, but nothing to match the short deck hemi's advantage. If they ran a 10.750 deck, that piston looks like the size of my alum trash cans out to the road on Wednesday night. I just wonder what is the shortest deck Hemi out there? Alan, The compression height I have heard for most big blocks go about 1.200 minimum.. There is no way the BBC's gain as much in that department compared to Hemi's. I am no expert, but I would say in the overall scheme the Hemi has gotten the better end of the parts acquisition game. Most people say it takes hard work, maybe so, but firstly it takes parts negotiation and management of those "strokes" of the pen. In any event I still say a 6.0 GT class with all the factory race combos 420 cu in and up would be about the coolest race I can think to visit Indy. Secondly a 7.0 GT class for large cubic inch engines maybe hypo combos, but not factory race combos. __________________ Lynn A McCarty 3470 SS

08-13-2008, 07:56 AM	#94
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,111 Likes: 1,570 Liked 1,812 Times in 413 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy The minimum in Stock for a 427 is around 1.735". Now, assuming a stroke of 3.799" and a rod length of 6.135" to remain legal, you're talking about taking 0.535" off of the block to get to 1.200" compression height. At a compression height of 1.735", you're already 0.030" below blueprint deck height which is 9.800. So to get to 1.200" compression height you'd need to get down to a deck height of 9.235", and I'm not sure you can take 0.565" off of a Bow Tie block and keep head gaskets on it. Besides, if you took that much off of it, there'd be no top bolt hole for the water pump, because at 9.800" blueprint height it's probably not 0.375" below the deck. I've seen some of the fastest SS big block Chevy engines in the country, they don't LOOK that heavily altered, and USUALLY I'd see that, there'd be some REAL obvious clues, like the intake touching the timing cover. But maybe I'm blind, or just over looking it. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

08-13-2008, 10:04 AM	#95
cutta Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 347 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy Lynn, I was guessing what they would run say in conditions at a track say 500ft. above sea level with 69 degree, 70% Humidity, 30.1 or higher barometer. But at indy, they would probably squeeze 8.90's. I guess the best person to ask would be Mr. Wescott since he outrunning everything. But Lynn, the only reason things have gotten so out of hand is do to the fact that all of the Hemi's are racing each other, so if everybody has the same stuff, there is no room to complain. Like I said, NHRA has let them have the most leeway since they no longer have to police them to provide parity with the Chevy's. So I guess, what all the Chevy guys will have to do is submit a proposall to NHRA to allow them some leeway so that they can participate in the SS/AH shootout in the future. I don't mind putting the cars back together in the same class, but I don't want to see a whole bunch whining on either end. Thats what creates the hassle NHRA Tech Dept. goes through to keep parity. And they do need provide those lower weight breaks for GT. Keep trying, as a fan I would love to see it. I'll be there with you guys one day, but college is the main focus right now.

08-13-2008, 04:10 PM	#97
cutta Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 347 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy It doesn't, because there is no class war. Don't forget that none of these Chevy's were running SS/AA when the Hemi's were there. I've only heard a few stories of a Chevy winning the SS/AA class. But Lynn, you've got to remember, I'm a mopar fan and as such, I will always say that a mopar will win. I root for Allen Johnson in Pro Stock at every National event I watch on TV. Do you really think my opinion will change? Believe me, I'm not trying to run around the issue at all. It's just that since every guy in the SS/AH class has the same equipment and parts, no one complains about performance inequality so NHRA lets them have alot of leeway.

08-13-2008, 08:30 PM	#99
cutta Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 347 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy Mr. Alan, that was probably before my time. I'm only 21! I would really like to see the class wars come back, but whiners from both sides will probably kill it before it happens. Would be interesting though!

08-13-2008, 08:47 PM	#100
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,111 Likes: 1,570 Liked 1,812 Times in 413 Posts	Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy I'm just Alan, nobody special, and no need for "Mr." Actually it didn't happen all that long ago. I think Travis Miller (NHRA Tech man) posted on this not too long ago. It happened about the time SS/AH was created. Or not long before. It might not have been Travis, I couldn't find the post in a quick search. By the way, it was GM that eventually said there were only 36 of the 67 L-88 cars produced. That seems odd, and a very low number, since I know of 2 of the original cars within 50-60 miles of me, but it is documentation GM provided. I know both Tony and Scott, they both raced local here. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S