What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing?

Freddie · 10-17-2008, 06:57 AM

I personally have not done alot of super class racing, but I have helped a few friends with thiers. I have learned alot about how all the timers, stops, and everything else you need to accuratly predict that perfect run, and its alot of fun. I also enjoy Super Stock racing, it takes alot to make a car run far enough under the index to even think about getting competetive. Thats why lately I have been just bracket racing, kinda sneeking up on my combination. I am planning on racing a few Super Street events next year, and still enjoy watching the Super Gas/Comp cars maybe soon I will get mine to go a little faster and step up.

Locally alot of our racing seems to be going to heads up index racing, its ok, but with the breakout rule, its just like running any of the super classes without electronics.

I dont think you will see NHRA do away with any electronics at this point, they had a chance several years ago and didnt. There is too much revenue, and sponsor $$$ to NHRA for the sportsman racer from these companies, and NHRA is all about the $$$.

Michael Pliska · 10-17-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddie

I dont think you will see NHRA do away with any electronics at this point, they had a chance several years ago and didnt. There is too much revenue, and sponsor $$$ to NHRA for the sportsman racer from these companies, and NHRA is all about the $$$.

This is the part that always puzzled me, after they swiftly banned stutter boxes back in the late 80's. Back then I was told by an NHRA official that they did not like the boxes because they made it appear that the car was broken, and that they did not want the super classes to become dominated by high-dollar big inch engines in the quest for the highest mph. Has anyone heard another reason for the stutter box ban?

Regards,

CBS · 10-17-2008, 10:40 AM

everybody has their opinion on things.....but what is the issue with the timer.....is it because they make guys that really don't have a chance to win competitive.....or is it because it allows guys that can afford some horsepower to go faster than they do....what is the issue...it looks to me like the guys that don't like them are the guys not racing much (outside of Bill Jackson...and he's old school and would be competitive either way)...and somehow the outlawing of timers would allow them to race...

why are we talking about this...go race NMRA or NMCA and race the 10 cars for the title....

CBS

almost Jason like

Michael Pliska · 10-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBS

everybody has their opinion on things.....but what is the issue with the timer.....is it because they make guys that really don't have a chance to win competitive.....or is it because it allows guys that can afford some horsepower to go faster than they do....what is the issue...it looks to me like the guys that don't like them are the guys not racing much (outside of Bill Jackson...and he's old school and would be competitive either way)...and somehow the outlawing of timers would allow them to race...

why are we talking about this...go race NMRA or NMCA and race the 10 cars for the title....

CBS

almost Jason like

I think the point about the timers is twofold:

1) For the racer, the timers allowed people to spend more money and have a car with an inherent advantage. Put another way, it significantly increased the cost of fielding a competitive car. Yes, we all know that you just need to cut a good light and run a 9.900 and cut a 0.000 light, but we also know that coming from behind provides a significant advantage when judging the stripe. If it were not an advantage, then why do so few people run the "old school" low-mph way?

2) We have all heard complaints of spectators that they don't like watching the .90 classes because of the timers. Some have pointed out that many spectators are just there to watch the nitro classes anyway, but I know that there were more spectators watching S/G at the national events back in the 80's (somewhere in a box I have photos of several nationals with full stands behind my car). Maybe the spectators have just changed, but they definitely watched us back then.

Regards,

John Quinn · 10-17-2008, 12:06 PM

What makes .90 classes hard to watch is not the delay boxes, it is the size of the delay. Lower the indexes so that the cars do not appear to break off the line and they will be much more interesting to watch, maybe even more fun to do.

CBS jr · 10-17-2008, 12:09 PM

Hey Mike....WE ARE NOT RACING IN THE 80'S ANYMORE!!! Get up to date!!!
STOP WHINNING and get your bucket of bolts out and show us how you did it in the 80's.

H.A.A.C. Racing · 10-17-2008, 12:37 PM

Don't forget the flat washers and locking nuts you use for a timer!

CBS · 10-17-2008, 01:26 PM

Its a natural progression to go faster.....live with it....We didn't buy big Reher Morrison engines overnight....we worked up to them....little by little....we started with a 427....and every year we stepped it up.... I can't go the same speed year after year...but some people don't mind it....(there are plenty of slower cars that are competitive)......the timers or engine size is not the problem...its going to the races and payouts................if you want to race in the past....go ahead....its not my problem........ ....Lets talk about something that is constructive...like payouts....class rotation...schedules.....points formats...etc...the timer discussion is a waste of keystrokes...8.90 and 9.90 are the strongest of the classes in NHRA...go to the super stock forum and suggest delay boxes.....see how that goes for ya...

CBS
(you can see I'm a little stressed these days)

Michael Pliska · 10-17-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBS jr

Hey Mike....WE ARE NOT RACING IN THE 80'S ANYMORE!!! Get up to date!!!
STOP WHINNING and get your bucket of bolts out and show us how you did it in the 80's.

I didn't think I was whining, just having an interesting discussion! My car will be out there soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Quinn

What makes .90 classes hard to watch is not the delay boxes, it is the size of the delay. Lower the indexes so that the cars do not appear to break off the line and they will be much more interesting to watch, maybe even more fun to do.

My guess is that if you lowered the indexes, you'd still get guys trying to be the top speed in the class. In other words, they would just find the next class that they can make the weight limit and still run ludicrous speeds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewchiefpro

Timing chains and weird popping noises were the main reasons I heard. Since they did not have diapers back then NHRA hated to clean up the oil when the timing chains broke. I remember one in particular that oiled the track from 200 ft to the turn off. It looked like someone blew the timing cover off with a shotgun.

Wow, I hadn't heard about that part! I had some friends (John Hyland & family) that ran the stutter boxes until the ban, but I don't recall them destroying anything like that. They always had top dollar stuff, so they probably had Jesels or something which took the abuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBS

Its a natural progression to go faster.....live with it....We didn't buy big Reher Morrison engines overnight....we worked up to them....little by little....we started with a 427....and every year we stepped it up.... I can't go the same speed year after year...but some people don't mind it....(there are plenty of slower cars that are competitive)......the timers or engine size is not the problem...its going to the races and payouts................if you want to race in the past....go ahead....its not my problem........ ....Lets talk about something that is constructive...like payouts....class rotation...schedules.....points formats...etc...the timer discussion is a waste of keystrokes...8.90 and 9.90 are the strongest of the classes in NHRA...go to the super stock forum and suggest delay boxes.....see how that goes for ya...

CBS
(you can see I'm a little stressed these days)

I agree with the desire to go faster, but we all have our financial limits (or at least I do). The part I don't like about the timers is that it requires you to spend more money to be competitive in the class. In other words, it provides a distinct advantage to those who spend the most money. As you probably remember from the old days of Super-Gas, there were plenty of lower-dollar racers doing well. Sure, there were plenty of high-dollar cars being towed behind Class 6 trucks, but there were several people with open trailers and low-buck cars who did quite well (Dan Divita, Kris LaPoint, Seipel family).

It is interesting that the poll is running almost even. Maybe NHRA can create a new/old class, kind of like "Coke Classsic", with rules to have us racing the old way

Regards,

CBS · 10-17-2008, 02:59 PM

the problem is they want less classes not more......what is this distinct advantage thing.....the good racers win no matter what the rules are...or how fast the cars are.....what do you think, we just decided to spend more money on our motors....we worked hard to scrape the money together to make them faster....If you don't like what you have...figure out how to change it....changing the rules to suite yourself is not gonna do it....move on.....change the subject....I'm done

CBS

View Poll Results: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing?
I'd like it and keep racing the current .90 classes. My car isn't high mph anyway.	34	47.89%
I'd like it and keep racing the current .90 classes. I'd sell my 632" and pay off my mortgage.	1	1.41%
I'd grudgingly accept it and race my 160 mph S/ST car in S/C.	0	0%
Do you know how much I spent on this dry sump 632? I'm going Top Sportsman racing!	4	5.63%
I'd hunt down the bastard who proposed it and beat him with the dry sump off of my spare 632.	32	45.07%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

10-17-2008, 06:57 AM	#1
Freddie Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampa Fla / Anderson SC Posts: 334 Likes: 12 Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? I personally have not done alot of super class racing, but I have helped a few friends with thiers. I have learned alot about how all the timers, stops, and everything else you need to accuratly predict that perfect run, and its alot of fun. I also enjoy Super Stock racing, it takes alot to make a car run far enough under the index to even think about getting competetive. Thats why lately I have been just bracket racing, kinda sneeking up on my combination. I am planning on racing a few Super Street events next year, and still enjoy watching the Super Gas/Comp cars maybe soon I will get mine to go a little faster and step up. Locally alot of our racing seems to be going to heads up index racing, its ok, but with the breakout rule, its just like running any of the super classes without electronics. I dont think you will see NHRA do away with any electronics at this point, they had a chance several years ago and didnt. There is too much revenue, and sponsor $$$ to NHRA for the sportsman racer from these companies, and NHRA is all about the $$$. __________________ NHRA: Comp 2200 - S/C 2201 NMRA 2012 Outlaw 10.5 #10

10-17-2008, 10:40 AM	#3
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? everybody has their opinion on things.....but what is the issue with the timer.....is it because they make guys that really don't have a chance to win competitive.....or is it because it allows guys that can afford some horsepower to go faster than they do....what is the issue...it looks to me like the guys that don't like them are the guys not racing much (outside of Bill Jackson...and he's old school and would be competitive either way)...and somehow the outlawing of timers would allow them to race... why are we talking about this...go race NMRA or NMCA and race the 10 cars for the title.... CBS almost Jason like

10-17-2008, 12:06 PM	#5
John Quinn Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bison, KS Posts: 97 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? What makes .90 classes hard to watch is not the delay boxes, it is the size of the delay. Lower the indexes so that the cars do not appear to break off the line and they will be much more interesting to watch, maybe even more fun to do.

10-17-2008, 12:09 PM	#6
CBS jr Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: who cares Posts: 176 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? Hey Mike....WE ARE NOT RACING IN THE 80'S ANYMORE!!! Get up to date!!! STOP WHINNING and get your bucket of bolts out and show us how you did it in the 80's.

10-17-2008, 12:37 PM	#7
H.A.A.C. Racing Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 320 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? Don't forget the flat washers and locking nuts you use for a timer!

10-17-2008, 01:26 PM	#8
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? Its a natural progression to go faster.....live with it....We didn't buy big Reher Morrison engines overnight....we worked up to them....little by little....we started with a 427....and every year we stepped it up.... I can't go the same speed year after year...but some people don't mind it....(there are plenty of slower cars that are competitive)......the timers or engine size is not the problem...its going to the races and payouts................if you want to race in the past....go ahead....its not my problem........ ....Lets talk about something that is constructive...like payouts....class rotation...schedules.....points formats...etc...the timer discussion is a waste of keystrokes...8.90 and 9.90 are the strongest of the classes in NHRA...go to the super stock forum and suggest delay boxes.....see how that goes for ya... CBS (you can see I'm a little stressed these days)

10-17-2008, 02:59 PM	#10
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What would you do if the NHRA banned timers in .90 (Super) class racing? the problem is they want less classes not more......what is this distinct advantage thing.....the good racers win no matter what the rules are...or how fast the cars are.....what do you think, we just decided to spend more money on our motors....we worked hard to scrape the money together to make them faster....If you don't like what you have...figure out how to change it....changing the rules to suite yourself is not gonna do it....move on.....change the subject....I'm done CBS