if wally was'nt dead this woulda killed him

[Rich Biebel]

I began racing seriously in 1966 with a partner and we had a '57 Chevy sedan delivery Jr Stocker. Going to Indy and winning class was like Nirvana to most people that raced back then. Winning the eliminator was not really even what we thought about much. Winning class was huge. That and being a national record holder were the 2 biggest goals for many. Winning an eliminator would also have been big but seemed like a more remote thing to accomplish at a place like Indy. We managed to get to the H/SA ? class final at Indy in 1966 and got a big paper "T" decal on our windshield.....I never removed that "T". Some racers got to go many times and won class many times. In the modern era with so many classes it doesn't mean much. Making a bye run for a class win is pretty meaningless....back in 1966 every class had a lot of cars but there were a lot less classes. Every class winner got torn down and if he was illegal the R/Up got torn down and was given the win if he was found to be legal.....I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

[Jeff Lee]

Rich,
My sentiments exactly.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Bill Grubbs

Jason,
I actually know a lot of people who go to National Events because they have (run) class, and most of those racers also have class.

Bill

Bill is correct. I personally know more than a couple of racers who will ONLY go to a National Event if class is contested. They'll go so far as to skip a race that is within 200-300 miles and instead go to a race 900 miles away, JUST because class is contested. And they don't go to single for class, either. Nice guys, always willing to help you, and mostly old time die hard racers, and none of them are strokes either.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

I began racing seriously in 1966 with a partner and we had a '57 Chevy sedan delivery Jr Stocker. Going to Indy and winning class was like Nirvana to most people that raced back then. Winning the eliminator was not really even what we thought about much. Winning class was huge. That and being a national record holder were the 2 biggest goals for many. Winning an eliminator would also have been big but seemed like a more remote thing to accomplish at a place like Indy. We managed to get to the H/SA ? class final at Indy in 1966 and got a big paper "T" decal on our windshield.....I never removed that "T". Some racers got to go many times and won class many times. In the modern era with so many classes it doesn't mean much. Making a bye run for a class win is pretty meaningless....back in 1966 every class had a lot of cars but there were a lot less classes. Every class winner got torn down and if he was illegal the R/Up got torn down and was given the win if he was found to be legal.....I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

A LOT of what Rich says has great merit. Great post.

[Jim Wahl]

Rich said: .I think there are to many classes and there are a ton of them that should be dropped........Indy should still be class winners and then low qualifiers but cut the number of classes and there are many I personally would drop completely. Nobody wants to watch a pile of slow cars make singles and that is not the way it used to be at Indy......

Let me guess which classes you would "drop completely". The "slow cars" right? So what exactly IS a "slow car"? Anything slower than what YOU run no doubt. What you say makes as much sense as me saying I don't think there should be any fast cars because they take up too much time and nobody wants to watch a pile of Camaro's run each other. Why don't you just say " If your car isn't just like mine you shouldn't be allowed to race." Jim

[Billy Nees]

Calm down Jim, I've known Rich for a long, long time and you are wrongly assuming what he meant.

[Rich Biebel]

Thanks Billy....and yes we are good friends for many years. I know it takes a big effort to make any car run fast including 6 cylinder powered cars as well as FWD's. I was just making a post about my experiences in my foray's in Stock over the last 40+years. Jim your obviously very defensive as are almost all guys that race cars in the slower classes as well as fwd's. I guess your used to hearing stuff that threatens what you race so It's understandable if you get defensive. NO I don't think Stock should consist of 128 -396 Camaros or only for cars that cost $30,000+ but I also don't think Stock should have a pile of classes where only one car shows up. It seems to me those are usually the slower classed cars as well as the fwd categories. They are not heavily populated with cars. Thats just my observations and nothing else. NHRA should do whats best for the category and Indy should be run the way it always was......See ya at the races Billy......

[Dave Goob Cook]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Goob, You seem like a knowledgable guy , but you cross over the line when you you start to criticize certain CLASS cars on here.
Don't wear out your welcome.

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Bruce, Yes, I'm pretty sure Goob is a bracket racer. I think he has said he wouldn't run a class car. Too much hassle/money.
Everybody's welcome here , of course. I just have a problem with non-class racers telling us how we should do things.
Is that what you were asking?

I'd have loved the challenge of running a class car, when I was younger and more energetic, then the budget reality also rears it's ugly head for me and my program, so I am an admitted bracket racer, but an admirer of real Stockers and Class cars.
Class racing possibilities went out the window for me when Modified Production went away. I'm not a fan of the Super Stockers that are just back half bracket cars with an expensive engine. Impressive in performance, hell yes, but not in the realm of what I call "grass roots" racing.

I was commenting (not criticizing) on one of our local bracket racers that went to Indy and was the only car in Q/SA (I think) and got a "class win", if that qualified him into the Eliminator field, that seems pretty wrong to others that had better performance in their classes but were left out.

I don't have the answers to please anyone, just an opinion.

At least I run a bracket car with full factory wiring, stock cooling, brakes, and suspension, on 9" tires, does that get me some love?
I did butcher the rear interior for my roll bar install, darn it, but blame NHRA safety rules for that one.

Bet I have one of the only competitive S/P cars on the lot with working horn, turn signals, interior lamps, and cigarette lighter.
Wouldn't have it any other way, if the car had a clock, it would be working too.


Sorry, delayed post, couldn't get it on yesterday......just sayin', not criticizing.

[Mark Yacavone]

I don't know..What do you think,..boys? (LOL)

[Jack Matyas]

Mark -- Seems to me you get a little cranky on certain subjects that ring your bell sooooo...........maybe this is a good time to "turn the other cheek" as the Nuns used to say ........