AHFS does it really work and how!!!

[TOSTO RACING]

Originally Posted by Tim Barrett

With the latest debate on the 1.30 under instant Horsepower and Weight,with the AHFS,is there guidelines in the rulebook that the NHRA follows before making the penalty or decision?? Do they have a meeting on Monday and look at weather that vehicle was determined to be actually
legal??? IE,,complete engine teardown fuel check,weight check all with documents that show weather or not to make a decision that could really hurt a combination and a group of dedicated Sportsman Dragracers.
The NHRA is always promoting safety and are dedicated to making the great sport Racer Friendly and trying to bring new people into NHRA Dragracing.
Sometimes in life people make decisions without really looking into what effects they might create.
If guidelines or rules aren't followed where someone wasn't legal,,then someone could build a bogus combination,with an illegal engine,and could destroy a combination out of spite!! I'm sure those people who enforce the AHFS look at many factors before making a permanent hit on a combination that people have spent tens of thousands of dollars hundreds of hours to be competitive with other vehicles in a certain group.

You would sure hope that cars get looked at before hp ,but just not the case in todays NHRA, at least in my instance when I owned the Nova . The car that got the hit was never looked at, not even a carb inspection, and that's a fact ! Even though I'm sure it was legal, that is not the point here I'm trying to make. So I emailed NHRA and got a response I wasn't very happy with at all ,said they will try and do better.. I think before any HP is given to anyone the car that triggers the hp hit needs a full teardown period. I mean wtf what are we doing, if we aren't looking at cars before a combo gets ruined Hp wise???? Are we on an honor system, lol lol , yeah cause that works well in all my life experiences thus far lmao!!! I mean what they need to do is bring back tech that's where I would start , but they get rid of all the experienced guys wtf? Just tells me they don't give two ****s about it.

I really do not know what the answer is ,but if they are giving hp to a combo without looking at a car first then why even have a rule book and in a REAL rule book, there is no GRAY areas, because well, that's so and so and he or she has been racing forever and blah blah blah. ????????? Stick with an NHRA rule book and a lot of problems are solved quickly ,but someone needs to enforce it! And now a days who's that gonna be with no tech??


I mean don't get me wrong, I love running NHRA stock eliminator, I just wish rules and procedures were followed better.

[SDmopar]

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING

You would sure hope that cars get looked at before hp ,but just not the case in todays NHRA, at least in my instance when I owned the Nova . The car that got the hit was never looked at, not even a carb inspection, and that's a fact ! Even though I'm sure it was legal, that is not the point here I'm trying to make. So I emailed NHRA and got a response I wasn't very happy with at all ,said they will try and do better.. I think before any HP is given to anyone the car that triggers the hp hit needs a full teardown period. I mean wtf what are we doing, if we aren't looking at cars before a combo gets ruined Hp wise???? Are we on an honor system, lol lol , yeah cause that works well in all my life experiences thus far lmao!!! I mean what they need to do is bring back tech that's where I would start , but they get rid of all the experienced guys wtf? Just tells me they don't give two ****s about it.

I really do not know what the answer is ,but if they are giving hp to a combo without looking at a car first then why even have a rule book and in a REAL rule book, there is no GRAY areas, because well, that's so and so and he or she has been racing forever and blah blah blah. ????????? Stick with an NHRA rule book and a lot of problems are solved quickly ,but someone needs to enforce it! And now a days who's that gonna be with no tech??


I mean don't get me wrong, I love running NHRA stock eliminator, I just wish rules and procedures were followed better.

You are spot on. Unfortunately I don?t foresee NHRA making the investment it takes to enforce the current rules. Now we are at the point where many combos have received unverified HP. So you have Combos that may have been hit that legally can?t run with the class average. The automatic system seems to be the best data driven system to monitor the combos. It could certainly be better and tweaked. The issue is that with out verification of the legality of some of the hits you take out combinations for good. This is where there needs to be a system for evaluating the cars that are off the class average. I?m not talking about the slow cars in the class. Average the 3 fastest cars in each combo. If they are a tenth apart rake 5hp off as long as there is enough runs to merit an average. This would allow the margin of error and lack of teardown to moderate the destruction of combos that people actually try to make fast. In a perfect world teardown every car before it gets hp. I?m new to this game but I?m sure that hasn?t happened ever.

[bsimms89]

We had that issue back in 2018 with the combination we were running. Our 2017 350 COPO combination was rated at 580hp.

At the last divisional of the season in Vegas in November a new COPO with a big name sponsor that had never run at a race before showed up and ran in stock, made a qualifying run more than 1.2 seconds under the index which was the cutoff the AHFS used at the time. They ran a 8.19 on an 9.40 index.

The car was not torn down to confirm it was legal for stock, yet they added 37HP to the combination in Stock due to the one time fast run bringing it from 580hp to 617hp where it still is at today.

The next race the car was at in beginning of the next season the car was running in Factory stock showdown, running similar times it did at the November Divisional, yet in the setup for FSS it wouldn't have passed a stock teardown. The car has never ran stock again since, only Factory Stock Showdown.

NHRA should've torndown the car to confirm it was legal for stock before penalizing the stock racers' combinations. It seemed like a FSS team was using the divisional to test their new FSS car.

[SDmopar]

Originally Posted by bsimms89

We had that issue back in 2018 with the combination we were running. Our 2017 350 COPO combination was rated at 580hp.

At the last divisional of the season in Vegas in November a new COPO with a big name sponsor that had never run at a race before showed up and ran in stock, made a qualifying run more than 1.2 seconds under the index which was the cutoff the AHFS used at the time. They ran a 8.19 on an 8.40 index.

The car was not torn down to confirm it was legal for stock, yet they added 37HP to the combination in Stock due to the one time fast run bringing it from 580hp to 617hp where it still is at today.

The next race the car was at in beginning of the next season the car was running in Factory stock showdown, running similar times it did at the divisional in the November Divisional, yet in the setup for FSS it wouldn't have passed a stock teardown. The car has never ran stock again since, only Factory Stock Showdown.

NHRA should've torndown the car to confirm it was legal for stock before penalizing the stock racers' combinations. It seemed like a FSS team was using the divisional to test their new FSS car.

There are really only two options. Keep the current system but allow the automatic system for reducing HP on the Combos that were hit and can no longer be competitive with the fastest cars in other combinations. For instance in your case. Take the 3 fastest cars in your combo and compare those to the 3 fastest other combos in your class. If there is a difference of a tenth consider a reduction. No mess no fuss they get paid and don?t have to expend excess energy. Comparing the fastest cars in each combo prevents welfare to the less fortunate. The other option is just go back to the original rated number and no penalties no welfare. This would be pretty absurd but we will all go back to combos pre unchecked HP. Level the field and see who is actually the fastest.

If you?ve combo has never been hit are you fast or just soft?

[Larry Hill]

And then you follow every rule on the HP reductions all the numbers of all the runs show that combination should receive a 1.25% reduction and NHRA does this: The decision to adjust horsepower or to increase the index will be at the discretion of the AHFS Committee.

It is like Uncle Al always says; to NHRA the rule book is only a Suggestion Manual.

[Bobby Lundholm]

Has anyone stopped to think that NHRA doesn't really want us there? Smaller class fields, no tech, no prize money increase, first to get bumped when the schedule changes, and AHFS at Indy.

All these requests are good if they actually cared, but they don't. We cause the most work for them with the least amount of return for NHRA. Those 60 spots can easily go to any of the super categories with absolutely no policing by NHRA. They are slowly making changes to dwindle down car counts so they can justify dropping our class and avoid the Pro Stock Truck debacle from the early 2000's.

The only fix for this is to not run NHRA. There is another sanctioning body that would love to have us and proved it over the weekend. Why not make IHRA like how NHRA used to be and run with them?

[SDmopar]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lundholm

Has anyone stopped to think that NHRA doesn't really want us there? Smaller class fields, no tech, no prize money increase, first to get bumped when the schedule changes, and AHFS at Indy.

All these requests are good if they actually cared, but they don't. We cause the most work for them with the least amount of return for NHRA. Those 60 spots can easily go to any of the super categories with absolutely no policing by NHRA. They are slowly making changes to dwindle down car counts so they can justify dropping our class and avoid the Pro Stock Truck debacle from the early 2000's.

The only fix for this is to not run NHRA. There is another sanctioning body that would love to have us and proved it over the weekend. Why not make IHRA like how NHRA used to be and run with them?

IHRA is really doing a great job. For the life of me I don?t understand why they are using NHRA hp ratings when they already had their own. It easier I understand, but they are using poor data to start off.

[Jrh5220]

Originally Posted by SDmopar

You are spot on. Unfortunately I don?t foresee NHRA making the investment it takes to enforce the current rules. Now we are at the point where many combos have received unverified HP. So you have Combos that may have been hit that legally can?t run with the class average. The automatic system seems to be the best data driven system to monitor the combos. It could certainly be better and tweaked. The issue is that with out verification of the legality of some of the hits you take out combinations for good. This is where there needs to be a system for evaluating the cars that are off the class average. I?m not talking about the slow cars in the class. Average the 3 fastest cars in each combo. If they are a tenth apart rake 5hp off as long as there is enough runs to merit an average. This would allow the margin of error and lack of teardown to moderate the destruction of combos that people actually try to make fast. In a perfect world teardown every car before it gets hp. I?m new to this game but I?m sure that hasn?t happened ever.

Brianthis had gone on for years I think that nhra feels if we don?t care why should they. If you feel someone is cheating protest them. My 2 cents