Brainfarting a combo

Billy Nees · 11-23-2024, 10:05 AM

Ya know, I like the Cavalier. It's cheap, easy and not really a bad combo (did I mention cheap?). There IS another engine combo that is available in those cars. It's a 2.2l 2valve OHV combo that's very similar to the 2002 S-10 Pickup 134 combo. I seem to remember these cars running pretty well on the street. The problem is that NHRA has this combo listed in the 2002 Sunfire (same as Cavalier) but with no-established-specs. The Manf. HP rating is 115 vs.140 for the Cavalier/Sunfire which seems fair. They use the same OD. transaxle (or man. transaxle Yac) which I can say is a good piece.
I have found a 2002 Sunfire with this combo in it intact. It's not redeemable but I DID copy down the VIN.
The Sunfire (probably the easiest to get approved) would fit DF/S (16.50 index) at 2700lbs. The Cav. with the DOHC combo fits CF/S (15.60 index) at 2830.
Anybody (other than me) think it's worth looking at?

goinbroke2 · 11-23-2024, 02:55 PM

You would know better than most Billy but a local guy running a fwd bracket car says now that he has lots of power, even with slicks, he has no traction.

Certainly seems tempting though, that dohc motor would scream with stocker cams!
2830/15.60 = 147hp How much more than 147 do you think the dohc can make?
2700/16.50 = 119hp How much more will the ohv engine make than this?

I guess the bottom line is, do it, if not for you then for the guys following who might decide to run one in the future because it has specs listed? I wish someone would of done that for more fords or at least something beside mustangs after 2000 or so.

Speaking of ffffords, whatever happened to the 460 whale you were going to build??

Chuck Weissberg · 11-29-2024, 12:54 AM

I think it would be outstanding seeing how your great analytical mind would put this all together on a shoe string

Tom Meyer · 11-30-2024, 03:15 PM

The 2002 j bodies came with both a vin 4 push rod and vin F OHC. The pushrod block is steel and comes with a roller cam and rockers with a heavy crankshaft. The OHC block is aluminum, crankshaft is lighter and knife eged and will turn more rpm faster. It also has 1 point more compression. On a wheel dyno OHC motor was 40 hp better. I feel the OHC motor was easyer to get hp out of. Also trans gear ratos are better with OHC stick . Tom

Billy Nees · 11-30-2024, 06:50 PM

Hi Tom, what intrigues me about the combo is that they came with the 4T40E transaxle. I didn't know that. That gives it the access to the same final drives and low gearsets as the Ecotec. 20 less HP? It might be worth a closer look.

Tom Meyer · 11-30-2024, 08:08 PM

You are right. TH125,1st 284,2nd1.60 3rd1.0, FD3.18. 4t40 1st 2.96,2nd 1.63,3rd1.0 FD 3.91. Lots more weight spinning in the 4t40 verse gearing in a low hp and toque combo. Some tranny guy could take weight out? 125 is 125 lbs 4t40 is 150. Look what putting a 200 or a pro trans does for the RWD stocker does. But I am looking at paper and you are running a car. Tom

Billy Nees · 12-02-2024, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

Lots more weight spinning in the 4t40 verse gearing in a low hp and toque combo. Tom

I don't know just how much more rotating mass there would be. Not everything is spinning at one time. One interesting thing that we learned is that the line pressure is adjustable with a laptop! We have taken advantage of that!

11-23-2024, 10:05 AM	#1
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,487 Likes: 3,588 Liked 7,688 Times in 1,732 Posts	Brainfarting a combo Ya know, I like the Cavalier. It's cheap, easy and not really a bad combo (did I mention cheap?). There IS another engine combo that is available in those cars. It's a 2.2l 2valve OHV combo that's very similar to the 2002 S-10 Pickup 134 combo. I seem to remember these cars running pretty well on the street. The problem is that NHRA has this combo listed in the 2002 Sunfire (same as Cavalier) but with no-established-specs. The Manf. HP rating is 115 vs.140 for the Cavalier/Sunfire which seems fair. They use the same OD. transaxle (or man. transaxle Yac) which I can say is a good piece. I have found a 2002 Sunfire with this combo in it intact. It's not redeemable but I DID copy down the VIN. The Sunfire (probably the easiest to get approved) would fit DF/S (16.50 index) at 2700lbs. The Cav. with the DOHC combo fits CF/S (15.60 index) at 2830. Anybody (other than me) think it's worth looking at? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

11-23-2024, 02:55 PM	#2
goinbroke2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NS CANADA Posts: 887 Likes: 1,589 Liked 385 Times in 150 Posts	Re: Brainfarting a combo You would know better than most Billy but a local guy running a fwd bracket car says now that he has lots of power, even with slicks, he has no traction. Certainly seems tempting though, that dohc motor would scream with stocker cams! 2830/15.60 = 147hp How much more than 147 do you think the dohc can make? 2700/16.50 = 119hp How much more will the ohv engine make than this? I guess the bottom line is, do it, if not for you then for the guys following who might decide to run one in the future because it has specs listed? I wish someone would of done that for more fords or at least something beside mustangs after 2000 or so. Speaking of ffffords, whatever happened to the 460 whale you were going to build?? __________________ Jim Miller 103 U/SA Last edited by goinbroke2; 11-23-2024 at 03:04 PM.

11-29-2024, 12:54 AM	#3
Chuck Weissberg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: S Jersey Posts: 61 Likes: 247 Liked 49 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Brainfarting a combo I think it would be outstanding seeing how your great analytical mind would put this all together on a shoe string

11-30-2024, 03:15 PM	#4
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 936 Likes: 78 Liked 354 Times in 120 Posts	Re: Brainfarting a combo The 2002 j bodies came with both a vin 4 push rod and vin F OHC. The pushrod block is steel and comes with a roller cam and rockers with a heavy crankshaft. The OHC block is aluminum, crankshaft is lighter and knife eged and will turn more rpm faster. It also has 1 point more compression. On a wheel dyno OHC motor was 40 hp better. I feel the OHC motor was easyer to get hp out of. Also trans gear ratos are better with OHC stick . Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ??? Last edited by Tom Meyer; 11-30-2024 at 03:35 PM.

11-30-2024, 06:50 PM	#5
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,487 Likes: 3,588 Liked 7,688 Times in 1,732 Posts	Re: Brainfarting a combo Hi Tom, what intrigues me about the combo is that they came with the 4T40E transaxle. I didn't know that. That gives it the access to the same final drives and low gearsets as the Ecotec. 20 less HP? It might be worth a closer look. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

11-30-2024, 08:08 PM	#6
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 936 Likes: 78 Liked 354 Times in 120 Posts	Re: Brainfarting a combo You are right. TH125,1st 284,2nd1.60 3rd1.0, FD3.18. 4t40 1st 2.96,2nd 1.63,3rd1.0 FD 3.91. Lots more weight spinning in the 4t40 verse gearing in a low hp and toque combo. Some tranny guy could take weight out? 125 is 125 lbs 4t40 is 150. Look what putting a 200 or a pro trans does for the RWD stocker does. But I am looking at paper and you are running a car. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ??? Last edited by Tom Meyer; 11-30-2024 at 08:31 PM.