index lowering

[j gardiner]

Gardiner, you said two different things. I am not sure I understand your
point.
My point is there are some fast cars that can run over a second under at will, but have to slow them down so they don?t hit their combo. They are the ones who want to drop the indexes.2. While their is no doubt their are some very smart people working very hard on their combos, it is no secret that the significant increase in performance over the last several years has a lot to do with the lack of tech.

[DG]

Originally Posted by j gardiner

Gardiner, you said two different things. I am not sure I understand your
point.
My point is there are some fast cars that can run over a second under at will, but have to slow them down so they don?t hit their combo. They are the ones who want to drop the indexes.2. While their is no doubt their are some very smart people working very hard on their combos, it is no secret that the significant increase in performance over the last several years has a lot to do with the lack of tech.

The fastest race cars usually have had their motors torn down many times.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by DG

The fastest race cars usually have had their motors torn down many times.

I call BS on this one.

[Alan Roehrich]

A few observations from a currently former competitor, who may or may not be able to return, due to health, and the resulting financial issues.


First, yes, everyone should have a place to race. However, everyone can't, and shouldn't, run Stock or Super Stock. No class, or even sport, can be everything to everyone. That's a recipe for disaster.


Second, anyone can see that NHRA has no real interest in increasing the car counts in either Stock or Super Stock. Some individuals at/in NHRA probably do, but corporate NHRA doesn't care.


Third, changing the triggers is probably the best possible "common ground" solution.


Fourth, you're never going to make everyone happy, and probably shouldn't even try. Actually, if you've pissed everyone off at least a little, and no one too much, you've probably gotten it about right.


Fifth, you're never going to get a "level playing field". No two humans are the same on a day to day basis, so what they accomplish won't be. And some combinations are never going to go very fast, some stuff just doesn't have any real potential.



Sixth, some people are willing to spend time and money to go fast, some aren't. It gets prohibitively expensive to try to keep money out with rules, and often to keep effort out with rules.


Finally, some people are going to choose slow combinations in lower classes, and they're not going to be willing to spend the money on aftermarket pistons, camshafts, etc, never mind power train (transmission, converter, etc) stuff to go fast. You're NEVER going to make them equal to or happy with the guys running fast stuff and building high end engines and transmissions.


Over my 45 plus years as a motorsports enthusiast, and competitor in several motorsports, I have seen attempts to make those sports and classes "fit everyone" absolutely destroy the sports over the long run. I've seen fast growing sports permanently stunted, and seen entire sports nearly disappear, with tracks closing, spectators leaving, and competitors quitting. It just doesn't work. Stock and Super Stock are probably the most hard core sportsman classes in drag racing, along with Competition Eliminator. The "casual competitor" is never going to really fit in, or be happy. Myself, I'm sidelined specifically because I can't be competitive right now in any way that I care to compete. I'm on the side lines helping people and trying to rebuild.


Y'all can take all that, or leave it, for whatever it's worth, or not worth.

[JGrossijr]

Excellent post Alan

[Mark Madison]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

A few observations from a currently former competitor, who may or may not be able to return, due to health, and the resulting financial issues.


First, yes, everyone should have a place to race. However, everyone can't, and shouldn't, run Stock or Super Stock. No class, or even sport, can be everything to everyone. That's a recipe for disaster.


Second, anyone can see that NHRA has no real interest in increasing the car counts in either Stock or Super Stock. Some individuals at/in NHRA probably do, but corporate NHRA doesn't care.


Third, changing the triggers is probably the best possible "common ground" solution.


Fourth, you're never going to make everyone happy, and probably shouldn't even try. Actually, if you've pissed everyone off at least a little, and no one too much, you've probably gotten it about right.


Fifth, you're never going to get a "level playing field". No two humans are the same on a day to day basis, so what they accomplish won't be. And some combinations are never going to go very fast, some stuff just doesn't have any real potential.



Sixth, some people are willing to spend time and money to go fast, some aren't. It gets prohibitively expensive to try to keep money out with rules, and often to keep effort out with rules.


Finally, some people are going to choose slow combinations in lower classes, and they're not going to be willing to spend the money on aftermarket pistons, camshafts, etc, never mind power train (transmission, converter, etc) stuff to go fast. You're NEVER going to make them equal to or happy with the guys running fast stuff and building high end engines and transmissions.


Over my 45 plus years as a motorsports enthusiast, and competitor in several motorsports, I have seen attempts to make those sports and classes "fit everyone" absolutely destroy the sports over the long run. I've seen fast growing sports permanently stunted, and seen entire sports nearly disappear, with tracks closing, spectators leaving, and competitors quitting. It just doesn't work. Stock and Super Stock are probably the most hard core sportsman classes in drag racing, along with Competition Eliminator. The "casual competitor" is never going to really fit in, or be happy. Myself, I'm sidelined specifically because I can't be competitive right now in any way that I care to compete. I'm on the side lines helping people and trying to rebuild.


Y'all can take all that, or leave it, for whatever it's worth, or not worth.

Alan, You nailed it. As Jim, Said Excellent post.


Mark Madison

[JP1738]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Finally, some people are going to choose slow combinations in lower classes, and they're not going to be willing to spend the money on aftermarket pistons, camshafts, etc, never mind power train (transmission, converter, etc) stuff to go fast. You're NEVER going to make them equal to or happy with the guys running fast stuff and building high end engines and transmissions.

I feel attacked

I deliberately went with a slow car, in a low class, with moderate potential. Don't have to worry about heads up, bullet proof th350, hardy rotating assembly and valve train. I have no issue with people wanting to go fast, knock yourself out. If my combo takes a hit, I like that a whole lot less, but that's what I signed up for.

We (slow ppl) don't want the class to come to us, but we don't want it to run away either.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by JP1738

I feel attacked

I deliberately went with a slow car, in a low class, with moderate potential. Don't have to worry about heads up, bullet proof th350, hardy rotating assembly and valve train. I have no issue with people wanting to go fast, knock yourself out. If my combo takes a hit, I like that a whole lot less, but that's what I signed up for.

We (slow ppl) don't want the class to come to us, but we don't want it to run away either.

Nope, not attacking anyone. just stating the facts. I've never said anyone wasn't welcome, just that no one is immune to the reality. And the reality is that both Stock and Super Stock are based on performance, and that being the case, that's where the focus must remain for the classes to survive, much less thrive.

[JP1738]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Nope, not attacking anyone. just stating the facts. I've never said anyone wasn't welcome, just that no one is immune to the reality. And the reality is that both Stock and Super Stock are based on performance, and that being the case, that's where the focus must remain for the classes to survive, much less thrive.

No, I'm with you 100%, just being facetious.