New Classes in Stock AAA/SA, AAA/S and FS/AAA

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Are they truly "entry level"? Ie., are they a gateway for people looking to get into class racing, learn, and move up? Or are they a protected special class, for people to play in the deep end of the pool, with water wings, instead of learning to swim?




Look, I don't mind FWD, it's not my cup of tea, but variety is the spice of life.


The true concept of a dime rocket is really cool. The idea of an underfactored combination, where you can buy the car for a low price, you go buy used wheels and tires, cheap headers, freshen the engine, build a nice budget transmission with a cheap converter, throw in a gear on a spool, and go run 0.80+ under, that's frikkin awesome. If you're not hiding from heads up runs, even better.



But when I read these posts you guys make, the FWD guys don't want heads up races (but Billy wants to make the RWD stick guys race the RWD automatic guys heads up), they want to deep stage, and they want the "first or worst" rule rescinded. They want to buy their car for under $1250 on marketplace. They don't want to buy high end pistons, rings, camshafts, clutches, converters, etc. But they want a "level playing field" that suits them, to race guys who make the investment.




Are we talking about NHRA Stock Eliminator here?


Or are we talking about NHRA Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Eliminator?


As usual, the conversation is not a conversation, or a discussion. It's a dead end.

Hey, tuff guy! Just where do you think the next generation is coming from! IF there is going to BE a next generation! Do you think that they're going to just hit up their Daddys up for a $100K car?
Yes they're "entry level" but not for the reasons that you think. You can go to any shop in the country and buy all of the pieces to put together a big-block Camaro and if you've got a little bit of tuning talent you can get it to run pretty well OR you can buy the tuning talent just like you bought all of the pieces for the car! They're "entry level" because you can't BUY ANYTHING for them, you've got to make the stuff and improvise.

You apparently DO "mind" FWD having said what you just said.

The "idea" of a "Dime Rocket" is (for me) to keep people in this game. Some time, you should get off of your "safe" combos (solid-lifter big-blocks and 327/275s) and try something difficult like a 307 Chevy or a 301 Pontiac (or an easy FWD combo) and see how that works for you.
I could be racing some of the combos that I have out in my big garage but I choose to spend my time trying to show potential Racers how they can compete and be competitive on a budget. But I guess that if I had done some of this stuff and told the readers how expensive it was going to be then you'd be OK with it?

Where did you see anything about FWD Racers not wanting heads-up runs? I wrote in one of my "build" threads that I hope that there would be 20 of those cars built. And I still do! And where exactly did I say that I want Stick combos running heads-up against Auto combos? I said that combining sticks and autos would make more common sense than combining RWDs and FWDs. Don't put words in my mouth!
What business is it of yours where I buy my car or what I paid for it and whether I buy "high end" parts (that don't exist anyway) or not! If the combo is in the guide and is built within the rules (probably more so than most BB and 327/275 Camaros) then we have a "level playing field". You can "make the investment" however you would like.

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money but seeing as we're talking about "NHRA Stock Eliminator" here, please show me how and why "Stock Eliminator" heads and intakes are worth so much today? Why do the indexes need to be moved to keep these higher HP combos from having to slow down to keep from getting HP hits? Why do these higher HP combos suddenly "need" aftermarket heads and carbs and blocks that aren't available to the lower HP combos and FWDs?

It seems from where I'm sitting that you are one of the Racers wanting "diversity, equity and inclusion" here. The underclassmen aren't the ones shouting for all of the change! We just want a FAIR place to race!

[Alan Roehrich]

Thanks for the laughs.

[James Hill]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Hey, tuff guy! Just where do you think the next generation is coming from! IF there is going to BE a next generation! Do you think that they're going to just hit up their Daddys up for a $100K car?
Yes they're "entry level" but not for the reasons that you think. You can go to any shop in the country and buy all of the pieces to put together a big-block Camaro and if you've got a little bit of tuning talent you can get it to run pretty well OR you can buy the tuning talent just like you bought all of the pieces for the car! They're "entry level" because you can't BUY ANYTHING for them, you've got to make the stuff and improvise.

You apparently DO "mind" FWD having said what you just said.

The "idea" of a "Dime Rocket" is (for me) to keep people in this game. Some time, you should get off of your "safe" combos (solid-lifter big-blocks and 327/275s) and try something difficult like a 307 Chevy or a 301 Pontiac (or an easy FWD combo) and see how that works for you.
I could be racing some of the combos that I have out in my big garage but I choose to spend my time trying to show potential Racers how they can compete and be competitive on a budget. But I guess that if I had done some of this stuff and told the readers how expensive it was going to be then you'd be OK with it?

Where did you see anything about FWD Racers not wanting heads-up runs? I wrote in one of my "build" threads that I hope that there would be 20 of those cars built. And I still do! And where exactly did I say that I want Stick combos running heads-up against Auto combos? I said that combining sticks and autos would make more common sense than combining RWDs and FWDs. Don't put words in my mouth!
What business is it of yours where I buy my car or what I paid for it and whether I buy "high end" parts (that don't exist anyway) or not! If the combo is in the guide and is built within the rules (probably more so than most BB and 327/275 Camaros) then we have a "level playing field". You can "make the investment" however you would like.

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money but seeing as we're talking about "NHRA Stock Eliminator" here, please show me how and why "Stock Eliminator" heads and intakes are worth so much today? Why do the indexes need to be moved to keep these higher HP combos from having to slow down to keep from getting HP hits? Why do these higher HP combos suddenly "need" aftermarket heads and carbs and blocks that aren't available to the lower HP combos and FWDs?

It seems from where I'm sitting that you are one of the Racers wanting "diversity, equity and inclusion" here. The underclassmen aren't the ones shouting for all of the change! We just want a FAIR place to race!

What young person is going to build a 301 pontiac or a 307 chevy? What young person is going to want to run a 17 second fwd 4 door car? I'm closer to 21 than you by a large margin and none of my friends have intrest in that.

You want to really do something to toot your class racer horn go out by a newer 17+ camaro challenger mustang of your choice DRIVE it to 5 divisionals and 3 nationals AND BE COMPETITIVE. I know your going to say BuT ThAtS nOt a DiMe RoCkEt, well it's relatable and most people in America can get a car loan.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I'm not understanding your obsession with it.

And, honestly, the pure factory race cars should be in their own completely separate classes.

I wouldn't say "obsessed" with it. There just aren't enough Stick cars running anymore and with the HP factors being done the way they are it just seems like common sense to me. More so than going to one pound weight breaks after thinking about Yac's post.

"Honestly" if you feel that the "pure factory race cars should be in their own completely separate classes" then IMHO they should be in SS where they belong along with all of the other "pure factory race cars". You know, like the Race Hemis, the Thunderbolts and the 427 Camaros. But I'm guessing that somebody will just come on here and tell me that , "we can't go back, mistakes were made, live with it".

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I wouldn't say "obsessed" with it. There just aren't enough Stick cars running anymore and with the HP factors being done the way they are it just seems like common sense to me. More so than going to one pound weight breaks after thinking about Yac's post.

"Honestly" if you feel that the "pure factory race cars should be in their own completely separate classes" then IMHO they should be in SS where they belong along with all of the other "pure factory race cars". You know, like the Race Hemis, the Thunderbolts and the 427 Camaros. But I'm guessing that somebody will just come on here and tell me that , "we can't go back, mistakes were made, live with it".

The Cuda's and Darts are in Super Stock.



The difference between some of the cars of old and the new factory race cars has been rehashed here a thousand times.Most of the older factory hot rods were not 4-5 times as expensive as the pedestrian street cars, even the ZL-1 was only about 3 times higher. A new factory race car is over $100,000. Most of the older cars came with full legal equipment, and a VIN. The new factory race cars come with none of that.


In all honesty, many of the factory race cars are truly "paper cars", some of the engines were never even built or available at all. Many of the ones that were, were never sold in sufficient quantity to meet the old rules. The old stuff is held to a higher standard. The best example is the 67 L-88. We know 36 were built, and sold by dealers, and we know a bunch went out the "back door" in the form of parts, etc. Some new Fords were never even built, not even one, and with Chevrolet selling 69 COPO cars a year, there weren't even 36 of many combinations built, there weren't even 50 built of some over 2-3 years. You can race all of them. But you can't race a 67 L-88 Corvette.

[Billy Nees]

Have you priced a new Camaro or Mustang (or Challenger) lately? More like half-again more expensive if that. Ya know the one thing that has always stuck in my mind about the original COPOs? They had window stickers on them but they were blank. At least the two that went through my local Chevy Dealer were.

As far as VINs go, there's an awful lot of Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles running around without them. I would have to say that the precedence for allowing the new stuff in was probably set when NHRA started allowing the older SS only stuff into Stock. And yes, I've been around long enough to remember when they were built and sold as SS only.

[Carguy49]

Since the discussion is on some of the older cars, I have a question. When did the 64 Ford Thunderbolt combination become legal for stock?? They were built as S/S only back in the day. It is what it is, but just curious.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The Cuda's and Darts are in Super Stock.

Not anymore! The way I'm seeing it, the '68 Darts and Cudas can fit AAA.

[Jared Jordan]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Not anymore! The way I'm seeing it, the '68 Darts and Cudas can fit AAA.

Not yet. Still in the guide as SS only and without an HP reduction, they won't fit AAA. 5.98 lbs/hp when rated @ 505 hp, the current SS factor.

But here's hoping. *fingers crossed*

[Joe Schweigert]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Not anymore! The way I'm seeing it, the '68 Darts and Cudas can fit AAA.

If that is true didn't they have 10.5 tires from Chrysler. How would that play out?