Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023

KennyAnderson · 08-24-2023, 02:50 PM

I LOVED racing with the IHRA back in the Pro Am days and although they were not all that well attended I think they had some really good ideas that go hand in hand with this thread. When my oldest son was getting close to aging out of JR's we found a well worn 93 Z28 and build a pure stocker out of it. It had 168k miles on it and we never even took the motor out. A 12 bolt rear, aftermarket bolt on suspension, wheels and tires, a good converter, and some computer magic and we ran 4 tenths under on our first outing. I had way less than 10k invested in this car and it was a great whip. We could double it in brackets, run stock, and generally beat on it as hard as we wanted. We won several races with it and even won an IHRA Natty race. Best car I ever owned as far as dollars won vs dollars spent. We were planning on converting to a crate motor setup when the I folded up shop.

Fast forward to today we finally sold the Camaro after hurting the motor and now have 2 NHRA legal stockers in the herd. We considered converting the Camaro but decided that combo was beat pretty hard. The crate motor classes would help offsetting entry costs as a newbie could pick up a used ZZ4 or Ford combo from a circle track racer and freshen it up for a reasonable cost. I've had this conversation with many NHRA diehards and they almost stroke out till I walk over to their ride and point out all the aftermarket parts, several ONLY had an intake as the original "stock" parts. Someone mentioned using a COPO or CJ or Dragpak motor but that has many zero's attached to it. Honestly my best advice for Joe Newbie to save his pennies and buy a good used possibly lower class stocker and go have a ball.

Cglrcng · 08-24-2023, 07:41 PM

Billy,

I have not been on the couch, the last decade plus was spent mentoring high school students in FIRST Robotics, plus the prior 23 yrs was running my own computer repair business and as an IT Tech, and knowing that the only way to return was to fully re-build the car completely to both alleviate the issue that caused me to spend a ton of money out on the NHRA running Div. and Nat. Events full time in 1995 w/ a car with a bug that acted just like I read one of yours may have faced.

I found it recently during my 17 month update project. It was not at all what it appeared to be back in the late 90's, an ECU Rev limit feature, but a simple engineered and design issue having to do with the factory stock gas tank, and the Calif. Required clean air standards (it is a CA car), and has a vapor recovery system on it.

The locked out ECU it took me years to learn, auto triggers the vapor recovery system at about 2 seconds after you go full throttle opening the vapor recovery selenoids and sucks the fumes out of the stock tank through the charcoal cannister. And (though I was looking under hood, and under the passenger side kick panel, the actual problem was found at the other end of the car during the deleting of the stock tank and the addition of a 5 gal. Fuel cell w/required upper and lower bulkheads.

A spiderweb cracked and getting worse with time, caused a huge vacuum leak in a quarter inch by 6" vacuum line, and only after 2 seconds at full throttle, but eventually at about 5,200 RPM in every gear, that started with just 1 pop in 1994 at Vegas about 4' after the finish line, and like I said got worse over time.

When I parked the car, retired from competition in 1997, it was a solution I had to find, and was not going to spend the money to finally machine the block, head, and all the rest until I could either replace the ECU w/an aftermarket stand alone system, or find out what else was causing it.

But, a quarter of a century later, I did find it, and so far, that issue no longer exists, only 3-1/8th mile passes so far, but not a missed heartbeat yet, and instead of 5,200-5,600...same ECU and 7K and still pulling hard I have not found the Rev limiter. And that is with the stock injector, the stock regulator, and a brand new exact match but new throttle body that was found that someone purchased in 1985 and still had in the box unused and found at an estate sale last fall.

The Holley system of course and a switch to laptop tuning is the next logical step of course, but gonna re-debut it to get a baseline on just the head, block rebuild, new Ross Forged flat top replacement bullets and the Total Seal ringsets, balancing, etc., then will work from there.

I now know all the existing wiring, and mechanicals are right and working, and have no issues on either side of the firewall.

Quarter mile passes are next, just working on under load ring seating, and finding those new shift points, and how far under it will now run, once the big issue was finally resolved and taking into account all the improves the much need machining, and real go fast parts added will yield to the go slow sled.

08-24-2023, 02:50 PM	#1
KennyAnderson Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 290 Likes: 38 Liked 357 Times in 119 Posts	Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023 I LOVED racing with the IHRA back in the Pro Am days and although they were not all that well attended I think they had some really good ideas that go hand in hand with this thread. When my oldest son was getting close to aging out of JR's we found a well worn 93 Z28 and build a pure stocker out of it. It had 168k miles on it and we never even took the motor out. A 12 bolt rear, aftermarket bolt on suspension, wheels and tires, a good converter, and some computer magic and we ran 4 tenths under on our first outing. I had way less than 10k invested in this car and it was a great whip. We could double it in brackets, run stock, and generally beat on it as hard as we wanted. We won several races with it and even won an IHRA Natty race. Best car I ever owned as far as dollars won vs dollars spent. We were planning on converting to a crate motor setup when the I folded up shop. Fast forward to today we finally sold the Camaro after hurting the motor and now have 2 NHRA legal stockers in the herd. We considered converting the Camaro but decided that combo was beat pretty hard. The crate motor classes would help offsetting entry costs as a newbie could pick up a used ZZ4 or Ford combo from a circle track racer and freshen it up for a reasonable cost. I've had this conversation with many NHRA diehards and they almost stroke out till I walk over to their ride and point out all the aftermarket parts, several ONLY had an intake as the original "stock" parts. Someone mentioned using a COPO or CJ or Dragpak motor but that has many zero's attached to it. Honestly my best advice for Joe Newbie to save his pennies and buy a good used possibly lower class stocker and go have a ball. Last edited by KennyAnderson; 08-24-2023 at 02:52 PM.

08-24-2023, 07:41 PM	#2
Cglrcng Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Location: Kingman, AZ Posts: 414 Likes: 1,597 Liked 355 Times in 189 Posts	Re: Joe Newbie, 20 Builds a "Stocker"' in 2023 Billy, I have not been on the couch, the last decade plus was spent mentoring high school students in FIRST Robotics, plus the prior 23 yrs was running my own computer repair business and as an IT Tech, and knowing that the only way to return was to fully re-build the car completely to both alleviate the issue that caused me to spend a ton of money out on the NHRA running Div. and Nat. Events full time in 1995 w/ a car with a bug that acted just like I read one of yours may have faced. I found it recently during my 17 month update project. It was not at all what it appeared to be back in the late 90's, an ECU Rev limit feature, but a simple engineered and design issue having to do with the factory stock gas tank, and the Calif. Required clean air standards (it is a CA car), and has a vapor recovery system on it. The locked out ECU it took me years to learn, auto triggers the vapor recovery system at about 2 seconds after you go full throttle opening the vapor recovery selenoids and sucks the fumes out of the stock tank through the charcoal cannister. And (though I was looking under hood, and under the passenger side kick panel, the actual problem was found at the other end of the car during the deleting of the stock tank and the addition of a 5 gal. Fuel cell w/required upper and lower bulkheads. A spiderweb cracked and getting worse with time, caused a huge vacuum leak in a quarter inch by 6" vacuum line, and only after 2 seconds at full throttle, but eventually at about 5,200 RPM in every gear, that started with just 1 pop in 1994 at Vegas about 4' after the finish line, and like I said got worse over time. When I parked the car, retired from competition in 1997, it was a solution I had to find, and was not going to spend the money to finally machine the block, head, and all the rest until I could either replace the ECU w/an aftermarket stand alone system, or find out what else was causing it. But, a quarter of a century later, I did find it, and so far, that issue no longer exists, only 3-1/8th mile passes so far, but not a missed heartbeat yet, and instead of 5,200-5,600...same ECU and 7K and still pulling hard I have not found the Rev limiter. And that is with the stock injector, the stock regulator, and a brand new exact match but new throttle body that was found that someone purchased in 1985 and still had in the box unused and found at an estate sale last fall. The Holley system of course and a switch to laptop tuning is the next logical step of course, but gonna re-debut it to get a baseline on just the head, block rebuild, new Ross Forged flat top replacement bullets and the Total Seal ringsets, balancing, etc., then will work from there. I now know all the existing wiring, and mechanicals are right and working, and have no issues on either side of the firewall. Quarter mile passes are next, just working on under load ring seating, and finding those new shift points, and how far under it will now run, once the big issue was finally resolved and taking into account all the improves the much need machining, and real go fast parts added will yield to the go slow sled.