The Fall f the United States, The End

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

Well Jeff, you knew I would have to disagree. Many got those benefits and more without having to pay a union to do it for you. I'm sure you will get all of your union dues back someday. Cough cough

Have a good day buddy..

Well again look at the facts. You were in management and I understand your point of view. But I was a grunt trying to make a living working for a very rich company. Our sister non-union plants made considerable less money, had less benefits and working rules and had a much worse turnover rate. I mentioned the year I was on strike. That particular contract Ralston had purchased a cookie company, cracker company and mayonnaises company. We sit down expecting a normal stressless contract. Instead we were told the company was "Getting out of the Pension business" and stopping contributing. We walked out for a month in the middle of Ohio winter. Caught my gloves on fire a couple times hanging them over the burn barrels. But like I said earlier, I retired at 59 1/2 because of that strike,, with company health insurance for both me and my wife, my in tact defined pension plus a nice 401. Non union SISTER plants had none of that.
On my dues, I was the President so my dues were voted on and paid by the local out of our kitty. All of the officers got their dues paid and the financial secretary got more. The reason was he was the only one that if he did his job wrong could be arrested for it. It's just a well known fact than Union Jobs are usually better than non union ones. Not always, but what keeps the non union job's honest is the unions pay scales. Without them it would get worse for everybody. Tickle down does not work when it comes to pay. Not really.. and the Republicans hate the fact that we can bargain.
If you happen to have a great company to work for that makes it NOT nessicary to look for help by bargaining, then don't get a union. But don't outlaw or run the existing 10 % of the nation that is unionized out of business deliberately.
I miss our talks..
Jeff

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

Well again look at the facts. You were in management and I understand your point of view. But I was a grunt trying to make a living working for a very rich company. Our sister non-union plants made considerable less money, had less benefits and working rules and had a much worse turnover rate. I mentioned the year I was on strike. That particular contract Ralston had purchased a cookie company, cracker company and mayonnaises company. We sit down expecting a normal stressless contract. Instead we were told the company was "Getting out of the Pension business" and stopping contributing. We walked out for a month in the middle of Ohio winter. Caught my gloves on fire a couple times hanging them over the burn barrels. But like I said earlier, I retired at 59 1/2 because of that strike,, with company health insurance for both me and my wife, my in tact defined pension plus a nice 401. Non union SISTER plants had none of that.
On my dues, I was the President so my dues were voted on and paid by the local out of our kitty. All of the officers got their dues paid and the financial secretary got more. The reason was he was the only one that if he did his job wrong could be arrested for it. It's just a well known fact than Union Jobs are usually better than non union ones. Not always, but what keeps the non union job's honest is the unions pay scales. Without them it would get worse for everybody. Tickle down does not work when it comes to pay. Not really.. and the Republicans hate the fact that we can bargain.
If you happen to have a great company to work for that makes it NOT nessicary to look for help by bargaining, then don't get a union. But don't outlaw or run the existing 10 % of the nation that is unionized out of business deliberately.
I miss our talks..
Jeff

Holy crap....didn't intend to strike a nerve..... we disagree, fair enough.

[Carguy49]

If we all agreed on everything how boring life would be. By having different opinions we can see and hear various viewpoints on a variety of subjects.

Let me leave you (for now) with these 2 statements. Without these we are a nation that has gone under, in my opinion.

1. IN GOD WE TRUST

2. GOD BLESS AMERICA.


God Bless each of you and thank you for your time. Like the signs on the back of my cars say "Pray For America"

[Dick Nearhoof]

Jeff I have a question for you that none of my union friends could ever answer. Why are employers forced to withhold & submit union dies for their employees?

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by Dick Nearhoof

Jeff I have a question for you that none of my union friends could ever answer. Why are employers forced to withhold & submit union dies for their employees?

That is Bargained and agreed upon during negotiations. Its an agreed upon section of the contract agreed to by both sides. In todays world company's don't care about this issue. Its a click of the button/mouse as all the payroll is computerized. It can be a little bit of a hassle when things get screwed up and need fix ( we had that a few times) but in the larger scope of things its no big deal. Here was ours. What your asking about is in Sec 3 & 4 . In our Union, you didn't have to join, but you had to pay dues. You could send your dues money anywhere you wanted ( Boy Scouts) but you had to pay the same amount as everybody else. That way, you couldn't get a bonus by not joining.

ARTICLE V
UNION SECURITY

Section 1. There shall be no discrimination, restraint or coercion by either the Company or its representatives or the Union or its representatives against any employee because of his membership or non membership in the Union, or because of his participation or refusal to participate in Union membership or activities. There shall be no intimidation or coercion of employees into joining the Union or continuing their membership therein, nor shall there be any interference with the right of employees to become or continue as members of the Union.

Section 2. All employees of the Company covered by this Agreement on its effective date shall become members of the Union and maintain their membership in the Union in good standing during the term of this Agreement. As a condition of employment, all new employees covered by this Agreement must, no later than ninety (90) days from the date of employment, become members of the Union and maintain their membership in the Union in good standing during the term of this Agreement.

Section 3. The Company agrees to deduct from each employee’s wages the Union dues for the current month and Union initiation fees, for each employee who has voluntarily authorized such deductions in writing in accordance with relevant laws. The amount of dues or initiation fee to be deducted from each individual shall be that amount as certified to the Company, in writing, by the Financial Secretary of the Local Union. The Company shall remit such fees to the Union together with a list showing the amounts deducted on a monthly basis.

Section 4. The Union shall provide the necessary “Check-off Authorization” forms. Each such authorization shall be irrevocable for one (1) year from its effective date or until the anniversary date of this Agreement, whichever occurs sooner. In the event that this Agreement is renewed or extended with a similar check-off provision, then within a period of thirty (30) days prior to the effective date of such renewal or extension, the authorization of each employee, unless revoked in the interim, shall automatically become irrevocable for a period of one (1) year or until the anniversary date or such Agreement, whichever occurs sooner.

Section 5. The Union agrees to defend and hold harmless the Company for any errors or mistakes in the amounts deducted from an employee’s wages.

Dick the exception is in Republican controlled states where Right to Work laws prevail. In those States this does not apply and in fact is outlawed. Its ok to have payroll deductions for the Scouts, United Way, Credit Unions or anything, as long as its not going to a Union. Strictly forbidden. What this does is turns the Union into bill collectors. If your short on your bills and choose to continually not pay the Union, others will feel slighted and joint in not paying either. And that's what the Republicans hope for.
Also, RTW States make it mandatory that all employees whether members or not, be supported and given the same opportunities as a paying member. You get in trouble and not a dues paying member? Get screwed on your pay stub and want to file grievance on it and your not a dues paying member? Don't worry. By the RTW laws we must spend our time and resources taking care of you just like everybody else.
Also incorporated in RTW laws is mandatory (paid for by the Union) yearly Union elections. All no shows count as "no" votes. So you have 100 members and 35 show up and ALL vote 'yes" to keep the union. It will fail as you have 65 no show NO votes.
Some RTW States have no bargaining on wages and benefits. You can bargain on working conditions but not wages and benefits. Why even have a Union ?
RTW laws vary a little bit from State to State, but all are designed by Republicans and are designed for one thing, making it almost impossible for organized labor to survive.
President Trump ask for a NATIONAL Right to Work policy. Said he would sign it the moment it hit his desk. He also stacked the NLRB, The National Labor Relations Board (The Supreme Court of Labor) with ALL Wall Street corporate lawyers. In the 4 years he was in office he successfully reversed decades of precedent setting cases, over 50 of them. Every single reversal went for large corporations and against Unions. Biden put Marty Walsh in charge of the NLRB. He was the Boston Mass. International Firefighters Union President, and of course fired all the Wall Street attorneys... but alot of damage has been done.
I hope all this info helps,
Jeff

[SStockDart]

Jeff, I don't think that is what he is asking. Why don't the members pay the union themselves? Send the union a check weekly or monthly or give the union secretary cash from their pay each week? Instead of requiring the employer the expense of doing it?

I believe that was a tongue in cheek question that we all know the answer to.

Jeff, I left my "Union Busting" days behind me a long time ago. Friend to friend, you might want to stop rationalizing the Union activities to yourself. You will sleep better.

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

Jeff, I don't think that is what he is asking. Why don't the members pay the union themselves? Send the union a check weekly or monthly or give the union secretary cash from their pay each week? Instead of requiring the employer the expense of doing it?

I believe that was a tongue in cheek question that we all know the answer to.

Jeff, I left my "Union Busting" days behind me a long time ago. Friend to friend, you might want to stop rationalizing the Union activities to yourself. You will sleep better.

I think I answered that question fully Gary. The Union wants no part of being a bill collector if the company is in agreement of payroll deduction. And they are. We never had any issues with automatic deductions. Just like the company doesn't care if you want to send 50 bucks a week to the boy or girl scouts, or your credit union. Its your money,,,its not an issue for them to set up automatic withdraw. Its a one and done deal. I just cant see the difference between something like it and Healthcare payments. I don't think you would expect all of us to send our monthly payments for Blue Cross Blue Shied (for our healthcare) by sending a check, would you? It's automatically withdrawn, just like the unions.
Gary, I sleep just fine. I will always side on the side of the little guys. A good union will always work hard for them. A Union is the "Local". You keep emphasizing the International. The International supplied us with Attorneys for our negotiations and arbitrations, trainers for our stewards, training for the financial secretary, and had district Reps be at every Union meeting to answer questions my members might have. I put on 3 meetings every month. One for 1st shift, 2nd shift and 3rd. The Rep was also there with me. But all the proposals for future contract language, all the wishes and desires (usually pipe dreams) came from those local meetings. The negotiating committees for the local consisted of members of our group, elected by us guys. In our case, Unions are small groups of men/women using the union as one voice. That's it. The international just helps us. And we chose if... and who's cases was Arbitrated. Our Local never lost an arbitration case because of this fact. If we had the language and they screwed over us and ignored the contract that they agreed to, we made them pay, dearly. Nope, I always slept fine.


I dug up an article after one of our contracts. Notice the Q-Jet Performance Tee Shirt !

https://www.ueunion.org/ue-news/2012...p-concessions-

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

I am good with that, thank you!

Prayers sent !! …. LMAO !!! You are too much fun Eddie …..LOL.

[Alan Roehrich]

The only time I had a union "securing my wages and benefits", the slackers kept me from getting a full time job.



Watched the largest local plant go broke after going union, they'd gone 30+ years without missing a delivery date or having a major quality problem. In the next 16 years, they missed dates, and had quality issues. The plant was closed, and the jobs went overseas.



Worked in a sheet metal fab plant, watched Peterbilt Madison go on strike, over a $20 insurance increase. Stayed out from April to Thanksgiving. Cost Peterbilt about 50,000 truck sales. The local sheet metal union picketed our plant, tried to keep me from my job. About 5 years later, Peterbilt Madison closed. Funny thing, those clowns never got their $20. And they lost a ton of wages. But hey, they got $100 strike pay!


I'll pass on the union. And voting democrat kills your 401k, your budget, and your personal liberty. But hey, the union officials and the politicians make bank.

[SStockDart]

Alan, I was once a Union Steward for the Teamsters. I decided that if I had to give the union money, I wanted to know how they operated and spent it. At that time (55 years ago)....ya had to be able to drink beer, slit tires, and threaten people. Maybe it is different now.