Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing

GTX JOHN · 10-24-2022, 03:38 PM

The heads I have destroyed have been from going down
the racetrack a lot of passes for nearly 60 years! Things do
break periodically on race cars despite the care they receive.

We run several similar stockers generally 15 times a year
not counting testing and have been since my boys could
drive (They are 33 and 40). It is not from any modification/grinding
or any other form of cheating that was done in preparation of them that broke them.

These heads we mostly find (when we ever do) are beat up from 50 years of driving in a car
on the road and have been rebuilt numerous times by not the best of shops.
With only 4 bolts around the cylinder, they tended to blow
head gaskets and overheat on the road. The heads tend to be very crack prone from
usage and the quality of the castings.

I do not know you Sir and you certainly do not know a DAMN thing about
my race cars! If you get out to Vegas = I would be happy to show
you the destroyed heads and broken pieces anytime you want to
inspect them.

My cars were torn down numerous times thirty years ago or more and were
NEVER found illegal or bounced for anything! Once we were torn down
3 races in a row back then due to "experts" complaining incessantly about our cars.
I guess the techs back then were not any good either!

Billy Nees · 10-24-2022, 05:16 PM

John, you've got to re-read my post. It took me a long time to figure out just how to word it so that I would NOT be accusing you of anything more or less than anyone else is doing. I've got a bit more respect for you than that.
Also, I put my "like" under your post before you edited it. If/when I get out to Vegas, I will definitely look you up!

GTX JOHN · 10-25-2022, 12:47 AM

Now this is simply a weekend hobby for us
and we are the furthest thing from experts.

That being said it is our experience on our Small
block Mopar heads = the port configuration (shape)
with its insuring effect on velocity are what actually make horsepower
Not bigger hogged out in size ports (Read thin walls) with impaired
velocity. That and paired with proper valve shape and seat configuration.

But as I stated above = I am not an expert like you are Sir and many others
on this forum and that I have great respect for and have learned a lot from.
I have never claimed either her or anywhere else. to know very much about this Hobby.
However, I do know intimately my nearly a dozen race car and exactly how they are built by us.

After the torment and repeated harassment, we received last week
(Most of which I never even elaborated on except the first of several incidents) =
I am seriously considering retiring from Stock/Superstock after the World finals.
This was after another similar threatening violent incident at Vegas Nationals.
I truly do not feel safe at the track anymore at my age and health. After discussions
with the official and numerous witnesses, I have come to the conclusion that unless
violence is threatened or undertaken toward their officials - they have zero interest in
hearing about it.

I can mail you the head right of my car after that race for your inspection and you can see
for yourself why we do not win class or heads up races very often anymore!

Again, with all due respect Sir: You do not know a DAMN thing about my race cars or
or anything about me none of which you have never even laid eyes upon.

GTX JOHN · 10-25-2022, 01:28 AM

Withdrawn

Billy Nees · 10-25-2022, 07:30 AM

John, you're OK in my book and I'd have your back anytime.
We spoke in Vegas a few years ago. You were racing an Aspen? wagon.

GTX JOHN · 10-25-2022, 01:03 PM

I appreciate the support of all my friends on here.
The issue is that we are all aging out and just can
not contend with someone 1/2 our ages and a head
taller (Not to mention in way better shape even if we do not
want to admit it).

After the last race we attended at April Nationals
in Vegas = In the Superstock staging lanes one of the racers
challenged me to a fight on the spot. He followed me nearly to
the front of the staging lane trying to get me to get out of my Aspen.
Everyone behind me was surprised to see the goings on. It rattled
me so bad that I forgot to turn on the fuel pump and wasted the time
trial.

Following that problem, I was ashamed (I no longer can effective defend myself)
and did not go to any more NHRA races this year until Bakersfield and had
the confrontation in the staging lane in Class Final. It made
it very hard for us to focus and do a good job racing in the final.

I did not elaborate on this earlier in this thread, but my son tells me that the
same folks came to our pit several more times during the race and flipped him off and
tried to instigate a fight while I was resting in the Toter. Apparently, they thought
I was the one that turned them in = But I was not and in fact have never turned in
anyone for a violation no matter how obvious it appeared to be. Actually, I was never
anywhere near his car as I have four of my own to prepare for the race.

I understand the officials position that we need to police our own
battles and they have a race to run. Unfortunately, I have aged out
these last few years and do not have the ability to handle the battles
any longer. Anyone who remembers me from 30 years ago know that
back them = If a man insisted on a fight with me - he could have it. Now
it is not so much being scared the beatings I would get (I have taken
my fair share over the years), but the embarrassment of have
everyone watching me get pummeled in the staging lanes!

Most of my good friends at the track have already passed the last number of
years. They are many of the guys that I so loved so much to visit with there.

So it is probably time to hang up my helmet in the shop and play with the Grandkids.

Sorry for the Rant!

I am truly heartbroken over the turns of event this year that have happened.
Racing is one of the things that keep me going and motivated in these later years.

GTS340 · 10-25-2022, 07:00 PM

Twenty years ago you might find one good pair of "X" heads at a swap meet. Others hoard them on some shelf. The head hasn't been produced since 1968-69. and only found on those years 340. In the early 70's how many of those were taken to the speed shop for modifications. The "X" heads on my 340 have been on my stuff racing for 20 yrs alone. My big block heads "906" are nearly as old.

As far as these clowns thinking their best chance to win is physically taking on a well liked/loved senior citizen is hard to hear. I guess that's why friends are dear. Can't please everyone John. I hope these fools do what sometimes is harder than fighting and that is saying sorry my mistake at least.

See at the races,
Paul Haszlauer

GTX JOHN · 10-25-2022, 09:34 PM

Well let's talk about the 666 and 301 Low Deck "B"
engine as mentioned earlier in this post:

What is my qualification to address this comparison.
Well, I have been racing Low Deck "B" engines since early
60's. Everyone out here has seen both the Roadrunners run
well over a second under on the brakes in Heads Up during
eliminations. They could show off by running 1.20 or more
we the wanted to = But my kids are not Foolish enough to
do that. Incidentally they have been through teardown at national
races and passed.

It is a given that the 301 and 666 are roughly even as produced
from the factory. Now look at the two intakes is with the carbs off.
One has the usual holes you would expect on most intakes while
the 666 has huge oblong trenches going the length of the carb area.
The 666 is easy and conducive to "Clean" and hard to tell if anything
might be unusual while the 301 is a normal style intake.
If you do not think a potentially larger intake plenum will not help air
flow on this engine = well we don't live on the same planet. When all is said and done,
I have found .04 and .05 faster performance back-to-back with the
666 in my testing. I have no reason to obfuscate the issue = we run a Thermoquad
73 combo now. If my post is too obscure to understand = PM me and I will be
much more blunt about what is going on when not on Forum.

Nearly a dozen years ago (3/29/2011) at a Div. 7 race in Vegas, I was at Heart Surgeon
preparing for surgery and my boy and a friend took my new N/SA truck out to the track.
a misclassed it as the wrong year = they did not know the truck and it was an honest mistake.
When I arrived later in the day I immediately asked Pat to take my truck off the ladder
and disqualify it. No one reported me or knew anything about the truck = I did myself.
In the correct class and year, it would have been the incorrect (too light)
weight! I was still awarded the additional 14 extra Horsepower.

We indeed made the mistake and therefore we paid the price. We did not try to
get out of it or attack anyone. If we had let it go in the wrong class it would have
wreck several people's trucks that legitimately ran that class and let us off scot free.

SSDiv6 · 10-25-2022, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN

Withdrawn

John,

Do not let others take away your joy, especially in a sport that you enjoy.
There are many of us that enjoy your presence and camaraderie with you at the track.
Don't give up. Giving up is surrendering to others.

bubski · 10-26-2022, 07:15 AM

One of the most detrimental trends Bubski is concerned with !! Is the lack of racers goin for the National Record when you just made the quickest and fastest passes in the history of your class yet refuse to put it to the tech test and get the certification for it !! Isn’t this a Performance based Class ?? What happened to the pride in having National Record holder spelled out on your car ?? There used to be 20 plus cars at the Dutch and similar fast Opens and Divisionals 20 years ago to break and set records !!

10-24-2022, 03:38 PM	#1
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,743 Likes: 2,837 Liked 2,517 Times in 701 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing The heads I have destroyed have been from going down the racetrack a lot of passes for nearly 60 years! Things do break periodically on race cars despite the care they receive. We run several similar stockers generally 15 times a year not counting testing and have been since my boys could drive (They are 33 and 40). It is not from any modification/grinding or any other form of cheating that was done in preparation of them that broke them. These heads we mostly find (when we ever do) are beat up from 50 years of driving in a car on the road and have been rebuilt numerous times by not the best of shops. With only 4 bolts around the cylinder, they tended to blow head gaskets and overheat on the road. The heads tend to be very crack prone from usage and the quality of the castings. I do not know you Sir and you certainly do not know a DAMN thing about my race cars! If you get out to Vegas = I would be happy to show you the destroyed heads and broken pieces anytime you want to inspect them. My cars were torn down numerous times thirty years ago or more and were NEVER found illegal or bounced for anything! Once we were torn down 3 races in a row back then due to "experts" complaining incessantly about our cars. I guess the techs back then were not any good either! __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 10-24-2022 at 04:09 PM.

10-24-2022, 05:16 PM	#2
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,519 Likes: 3,633 Liked 7,925 Times in 1,760 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing John, you've got to re-read my post. It took me a long time to figure out just how to word it so that I would NOT be accusing you of anything more or less than anyone else is doing. I've got a bit more respect for you than that. Also, I put my "like" under your post before you edited it. If/when I get out to Vegas, I will definitely look you up! __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K Last edited by Billy Nees; 10-24-2022 at 05:19 PM.

10-25-2022, 12:47 AM	#3
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,743 Likes: 2,837 Liked 2,517 Times in 701 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing Now this is simply a weekend hobby for us and we are the furthest thing from experts. That being said it is our experience on our Small block Mopar heads = the port configuration (shape) with its insuring effect on velocity are what actually make horsepower Not bigger hogged out in size ports (Read thin walls) with impaired velocity. That and paired with proper valve shape and seat configuration. But as I stated above = I am not an expert like you are Sir and many others on this forum and that I have great respect for and have learned a lot from. I have never claimed either her or anywhere else. to know very much about this Hobby. However, I do know intimately my nearly a dozen race car and exactly how they are built by us. After the torment and repeated harassment, we received last week (Most of which I never even elaborated on except the first of several incidents) = I am seriously considering retiring from Stock/Superstock after the World finals. This was after another similar threatening violent incident at Vegas Nationals. I truly do not feel safe at the track anymore at my age and health. After discussions with the official and numerous witnesses, I have come to the conclusion that unless violence is threatened or undertaken toward their officials - they have zero interest in hearing about it. I can mail you the head right of my car after that race for your inspection and you can see for yourself why we do not win class or heads up races very often anymore! Again, with all due respect Sir: You do not know a DAMN thing about my race cars or or anything about me none of which you have never even laid eyes upon. __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 10-25-2022 at 01:42 AM.

10-25-2022, 01:28 AM	#4
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,743 Likes: 2,837 Liked 2,517 Times in 701 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing Withdrawn __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 10-25-2022 at 01:36 AM.

10-25-2022, 07:30 AM	#5
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,519 Likes: 3,633 Liked 7,925 Times in 1,760 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing John, you're OK in my book and I'd have your back anytime. We spoke in Vegas a few years ago. You were racing an Aspen? wagon. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K Last edited by Billy Nees; 10-25-2022 at 12:46 PM.

10-25-2022, 01:03 PM	#6
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,743 Likes: 2,837 Liked 2,517 Times in 701 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing I appreciate the support of all my friends on here. The issue is that we are all aging out and just can not contend with someone 1/2 our ages and a head taller (Not to mention in way better shape even if we do not want to admit it). After the last race we attended at April Nationals in Vegas = In the Superstock staging lanes one of the racers challenged me to a fight on the spot. He followed me nearly to the front of the staging lane trying to get me to get out of my Aspen. Everyone behind me was surprised to see the goings on. It rattled me so bad that I forgot to turn on the fuel pump and wasted the time trial. Following that problem, I was ashamed (I no longer can effective defend myself) and did not go to any more NHRA races this year until Bakersfield and had the confrontation in the staging lane in Class Final. It made it very hard for us to focus and do a good job racing in the final. I did not elaborate on this earlier in this thread, but my son tells me that the same folks came to our pit several more times during the race and flipped him off and tried to instigate a fight while I was resting in the Toter. Apparently, they thought I was the one that turned them in = But I was not and in fact have never turned in anyone for a violation no matter how obvious it appeared to be. Actually, I was never anywhere near his car as I have four of my own to prepare for the race. I understand the officials position that we need to police our own battles and they have a race to run. Unfortunately, I have aged out these last few years and do not have the ability to handle the battles any longer. Anyone who remembers me from 30 years ago know that back them = If a man insisted on a fight with me - he could have it. Now it is not so much being scared the beatings I would get (I have taken my fair share over the years), but the embarrassment of have everyone watching me get pummeled in the staging lanes! Most of my good friends at the track have already passed the last number of years. They are many of the guys that I so loved so much to visit with there. So it is probably time to hang up my helmet in the shop and play with the Grandkids. Sorry for the Rant! I am truly heartbroken over the turns of event this year that have happened. Racing is one of the things that keep me going and motivated in these later years. __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 10-25-2022 at 01:26 PM.

10-25-2022, 07:00 PM	#7
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 881 Likes: 286 Liked 1,361 Times in 416 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing Twenty years ago you might find one good pair of "X" heads at a swap meet. Others hoard them on some shelf. The head hasn't been produced since 1968-69. and only found on those years 340. In the early 70's how many of those were taken to the speed shop for modifications. The "X" heads on my 340 have been on my stuff racing for 20 yrs alone. My big block heads "906" are nearly as old. As far as these clowns thinking their best chance to win is physically taking on a well liked/loved senior citizen is hard to hear. I guess that's why friends are dear. Can't please everyone John. I hope these fools do what sometimes is harder than fighting and that is saying sorry my mistake at least. See at the races, Paul Haszlauer

10-25-2022, 09:34 PM	#8
GTX JOHN VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Boulder City, Nevada 89005 Posts: 2,743 Likes: 2,837 Liked 2,517 Times in 701 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing Well let's talk about the 666 and 301 Low Deck "B" engine as mentioned earlier in this post: What is my qualification to address this comparison. Well, I have been racing Low Deck "B" engines since early 60's. Everyone out here has seen both the Roadrunners run well over a second under on the brakes in Heads Up during eliminations. They could show off by running 1.20 or more we the wanted to = But my kids are not Foolish enough to do that. Incidentally they have been through teardown at national races and passed. It is a given that the 301 and 666 are roughly even as produced from the factory. Now look at the two intakes is with the carbs off. One has the usual holes you would expect on most intakes while the 666 has huge oblong trenches going the length of the carb area. The 666 is easy and conducive to "Clean" and hard to tell if anything might be unusual while the 301 is a normal style intake. If you do not think a potentially larger intake plenum will not help air flow on this engine = well we don't live on the same planet. When all is said and done, I have found .04 and .05 faster performance back-to-back with the 666 in my testing. I have no reason to obfuscate the issue = we run a Thermoquad 73 combo now. If my post is too obscure to understand = PM me and I will be much more blunt about what is going on when not on Forum. Nearly a dozen years ago (3/29/2011) at a Div. 7 race in Vegas, I was at Heart Surgeon preparing for surgery and my boy and a friend took my new N/SA truck out to the track. a misclassed it as the wrong year = they did not know the truck and it was an honest mistake. When I arrived later in the day I immediately asked Pat to take my truck off the ladder and disqualify it. No one reported me or knew anything about the truck = I did myself. In the correct class and year, it would have been the incorrect (too light) weight! I was still awarded the additional 14 extra Horsepower. We indeed made the mistake and therefore we paid the price. We did not try to get out of it or attack anyone. If we had let it go in the wrong class it would have wreck several people's trucks that legitimately ran that class and let us off scot free. __________________ John Irving 741 Stock 741 Super Stock Last edited by GTX JOHN; 10-25-2022 at 09:55 PM.

10-26-2022, 07:15 AM	#10
bubski Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 228 Likes: 14 Liked 165 Times in 60 Posts	Re: Lets Root Cause the Detriment of Class Racing One of the most detrimental trends Bubski is concerned with !! Is the lack of racers goin for the National Record when you just made the quickest and fastest passes in the history of your class yet refuse to put it to the tech test and get the certification for it !! Isn’t this a Performance based Class ?? What happened to the pride in having National Record holder spelled out on your car ?? There used to be 20 plus cars at the Dutch and similar fast Opens and Divisionals 20 years ago to break and set records !!