Stick vs Auto

rboyle · 10-08-2021, 05:25 AM

I guess my question is not clear. Basically looking at same combo is the 4 speed faster than .15 over the auto? Liberty vs Metric 200 both well prepped. Not asking which is more manly or even more consistent. Maybe which brand of 4 speed manufacture is preferred too?

Rich67stang · 10-08-2021, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rboyle

I guess my question is not clear. Basically looking at same combo is the 4 speed faster than .15 over the auto? Liberty vs Metric 200 both well prepped. Not asking which is more manly or even more consistent. Maybe which brand of 4 speed manufacture is preferred too?

Rich,

For your combo you would probably use a Jerico or Gforce transmission with a Mcleod Soft Lok single or dual disk clutch. I get my clutches done by Advanced Clutches. Not any faster if the Converter and trans gears were correct in auto, IMO.

Nick Heath · 10-08-2021, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rboyle

I guess my question is not clear. Basically looking at same combo is the 4 speed faster than .15 over the auto? Liberty vs Metric 200 both well prepped. Not asking which is more manly or even more consistent. Maybe which brand of 4 speed manufacture is preferred too?

Hi Rich,

I think this question is tough because I can't think of many guys who have switched from auto to stick. The examples I can think of aren't totally relevant (LS1s and SS/AH Hemis). Randy Mans's LS1 went from fast to rocket ship after the switch - maybe Mike Mans can chime in with what they learned.

For whatever it's worth - I think your combo would be awesome with a clutch pedal!

Mike Taylor 3601 · 10-08-2021, 02:13 PM

i have comparison that may help...
my car was F/pure stock.305/160-230 (IHRA rating)350 TH 2.75 low gear set,low volume pump..
changed over T-10 2.88.1.75,1.33.... best with auto was 8.28 1/8 third pass with stick went 8.02 eventually went 7.68/12.30 without any changes to engine..
later converted to K/S ran 11.85 with T-10 broke it a few months later switched to jerico and went 11.66 first pass....
was converter perfect.NO but i had done all I was going to do with it...adjusted all it could be..... when i switched over was clutch perfect NO...and never was,but best I could do... 7.68/12.30 on 8.90/13.75 index was best I could do...

Dave Gantz · 10-08-2021, 04:58 PM

Some people may not be physically able to race a stick. I had a friend who could street drive a stick, but there was no way he could race one.

Tom Meyer · 10-08-2021, 07:23 PM

Ls auto to a stick goes from 382 hp to 357 or 25 hp less. 8.5 class x 25 hp less is 213 lbs. Maybe 2 tenths fast with a stick. If you look a well known stock racer just put stick in his mustang Tom.

Jim Grande · 10-08-2021, 08:56 PM

I have run my SS/D 69 Camaro both ways and it is a solid .20 quicker with the stick!
Auto is ATI TH400 with ATI converter. Stick is GF5R Gforce with Mcleod softlock clutch.
Perhaps a ProTrans would narrow the gap but the stick would be quicker and waaay more fun!

weedburner · 10-09-2021, 03:29 PM

Stick has the potential advantage of launching at a much higher rpm than an automatic.

Here's one of my ClutchTamer customer's sealed engine Coyote Stock graphs from several years ago, it clearly shows stored inertia energy contributing quite a bit to the car's initial acceleration rate. Energy that was stored prior to the start of the clock, then un-leashed after the start of the clock to boost acceleration. Notice that all the highest points of the Accel "G" trace on the graph occur while the engine's rotating assy is losing rpm (discharging energy) against WOT. But then as soon as the clutch stops pulling the engine down and engine rpm begins to climb, the G trace drops like a rock as engine torque alone is now accelerating the car with no help from discharged inertia...

Just something you might not notice if you are currently "driving into the clutch" like a lot of class racers do.

Grant

10-08-2021, 05:25 AM	#1
rboyle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 604 Likes: 1,454 Liked 586 Times in 162 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto I guess my question is not clear. Basically looking at same combo is the 4 speed faster than .15 over the auto? Liberty vs Metric 200 both well prepped. Not asking which is more manly or even more consistent. Maybe which brand of 4 speed manufacture is preferred too?

10-08-2021, 02:13 PM	#4
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,372 Likes: 354 Liked 307 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto i have comparison that may help... my car was F/pure stock.305/160-230 (IHRA rating)350 TH 2.75 low gear set,low volume pump.. changed over T-10 2.88.1.75,1.33.... best with auto was 8.28 1/8 third pass with stick went 8.02 eventually went 7.68/12.30 without any changes to engine.. later converted to K/S ran 11.85 with T-10 broke it a few months later switched to jerico and went 11.66 first pass.... was converter perfect.NO but i had done all I was going to do with it...adjusted all it could be..... when i switched over was clutch perfect NO...and never was,but best I could do... 7.68/12.30 on 8.90/13.75 index was best I could do...

10-08-2021, 04:58 PM	#5
Dave Gantz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Verrry South Jersey Posts: 537 Likes: 134 Liked 251 Times in 125 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto Some people may not be physically able to race a stick. I had a friend who could street drive a stick, but there was no way he could race one.

10-08-2021, 07:23 PM	#6
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 936 Likes: 78 Liked 354 Times in 120 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto Ls auto to a stick goes from 382 hp to 357 or 25 hp less. 8.5 class x 25 hp less is 213 lbs. Maybe 2 tenths fast with a stick. If you look a well known stock racer just put stick in his mustang Tom. __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ???

10-08-2021, 08:56 PM	#7
Jim Grande Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 49 Likes: 23 Liked 18 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto I have run my SS/D 69 Camaro both ways and it is a solid .20 quicker with the stick! Auto is ATI TH400 with ATI converter. Stick is GF5R Gforce with Mcleod softlock clutch. Perhaps a ProTrans would narrow the gap but the stick would be quicker and waaay more fun!

10-09-2021, 03:29 PM	#8
weedburner Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 55 Likes: 1 Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Stick vs Auto Stick has the potential advantage of launching at a much higher rpm than an automatic. Here's one of my ClutchTamer customer's sealed engine Coyote Stock graphs from several years ago, it clearly shows stored inertia energy contributing quite a bit to the car's initial acceleration rate. Energy that was stored prior to the start of the clock, then un-leashed after the start of the clock to boost acceleration. Notice that all the highest points of the Accel "G" trace on the graph occur while the engine's rotating assy is losing rpm (discharging energy) against WOT. But then as soon as the clutch stops pulling the engine down and engine rpm begins to climb, the G trace drops like a rock as engine torque alone is now accelerating the car with no help from discharged inertia... Just something you might not notice if you are currently "driving into the clutch" like a lot of class racers do. Grant __________________ Grant website- http://ClutchTamer.com We make your non-adjustable clutch...ADJUSTABLE!