Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

It was a 350/2V car. I think that it ran in either W or X/SA during the "Pure Stock" era. I believe that he had a 77 LeMans wagon body stashed somewhere and he always wanted to do a 6X 400 for Q/SA.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...9&postcount=20

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=286

So, was that 4-door Lemans ever built ? Was there a build thread for it ?

Never mind, I found it. There was a build thread. But it ended before the car was finished. He was planning a 2-barrel 350.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=49597

Here's what I found in the last post. That kinda seals the deal for NOT running a Pontiac 350, with one of the small 2-barrels.

"Originally Posted by Danny Ashley View Post
Back in the late 80's when I had my 1974 GTO I considered the 2-bbl. because that body was a one engine combination for a 4-bbl. I obtained a manifold and carburetor and knowing that the late W.A.Lee worked on 2-bbl's, I sent it to him. He called me up and said they had tried it already and that the carb was too small and it would slow the car one and a half seconds. I had looked at Allen Peters at the time and made my decision off him but W.A. informed me that the '69 Chevy had a much larger venturi. He didn't want to do it because he felt I was wasting my time and sent it back. I really didn't think it would kill it that much so I decided to try it anyway.
It was in the fall and we had decent air but nothing like I had just ran at the Keystones where I was no.1 qualifier and ran 11.97 in L/SA which was really quick for that time. The car at that time with the 2 bbl. was P/SA and the index was an odd number for some reason of 13.54. My first pass was 13.53 followed by a 13.52. The car had no power. I had to almost floor it to do a burnout. I came back and installed the 4-bbl. set-up which is quick to do on a Pontiac and went right back up and went 12.22. I'll admit that the car could go quicker with maybe more gear, smaller headers, cam change, etc. but it didn't look worth the time and money to flogg it out especially when the 4bbl. was so good.
One last thought. Please don't base the 2bbl. combination off of Bill Rink's car. Bill is a good friend and carburetor customer and I can tell you that his engine is a "Top Shelf" Parson & Meyers piece as is everything else on the car. Definitely not a "Dime Rocket". Just a "Rocket" in it's day."

Seems that the only way to run a 350 or larger Pontiac engine with a 2-barrel is to get NHRA to lower the index for the car to a reasonable level. So, basically, it's Q-jet, or not at all.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Seems that the only way to run a 350 or larger Pontiac engine with a 2-barrel is to get NHRA to lower the index for the car to a reasonable level. So, basically, it's Q-jet, or not at all.

Don, If you notice, the 2 bbl hp was last lowered in 2002. Many decades after Don Himes' 74 wagon. Also a few years after Danny's experiment. I would guess that someone with a 4 bbl car, had enough of that combo, after Bill Rink got through with it.
They will now run Q/SA and down.
An all out 2 bbl. combo will take a different gear, converter, headers, camshaft, and a different tune up.
With today's technology and available goodies, plus the fact that they've got Ray Charles checking carburetors now, I 'd say a Q/SA Ventura would go at least .5 under. I know it would with a stick.
Not a rocket ship, but should be easy to build, and fairly cheap ( in perspective, that is)

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Don, If you notice, the 2 bbl hp was last lowered in 2002. Many decades after Don Himes' 74 wagon. Also a few years after Danny's experiment. I would guess that someone with a 4 bbl car, had enough of that combo, after Bill Rink got through with it.
They will now run Q/SA and down.
An all out 2 bbl. combo will take a different gear, converter, headers, camshaft, and a different tune up.
With today's technology and available goodies, plus the fact that they've got Ray Charles checking carburetors now, I 'd say a Q/SA Ventura would go at least .5 under. I know it would with a stick.
Not a rocket ship, but should be easy to build, and fairly cheap ( in perspective, that is)

Wow ! So you think somebody ran a 2-barrel '74 Vent, and got NHRA to lower the hp factor. Any idea who that might have been, & how quick they ran ?

I also came up with some more 2-barrel questions. On the Class Racer Info site, the listings for the earlier model Pontiacs list the carb number or numbers, but there are no numbers given for the Venturi size.

So, can somebody here look up those numbers & determine what the venturi size was on 'em ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2057

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

OK. The '74-'76's have one of the 1.25 Venturi carbs, on a 400 engine. The '74 can also use the same #46 heads as the '74 350 engines used. So, might this engine have potential, if you could get the hp factor down some ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

The '74 can also be used in a Bird, as well as the A-bodies & most of the heavier bodies. So, how about this engine in a base model '74 Bird ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2086

It obviously wouldn't work at 255hp, since the Q-jet version is only 275hp. Question: How much would the 1.25V 2-barrel slow this engine down, from the Q-jet version, with both built to equal levels ?

At 225hp, a Bird could add a little weight & run P/SA, with a 13.45 index. So, anybody think a '74 1.25V 2-barrel 400 could run 13.45 or quicker ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

[oldskool]

Another question:

I just noticed that the auto trans version of the '68 350 2-barrel engine, came with the 2-speed ST-300 trans.

(1) Under current rules, could you run a Glide in this combo ?

(3) Could you run a 3-speed auto, like a TH350 ?

Sorry, I'm just not up on all the rules. Makes sense that you'd have to keep the same number of speeds.

[oldskool]

OK, the nat event schedule gets cranked up today, at the Pomona Winter Nats.

Every year at this time, I think about the Pontiac powered cars that did good there, back in the early '60's. In '62, Mickey Thompson's 421SD powered A/FX Tempest won the class, with Hayden Proffitt driving.

And I've mentioned that Carol Cox became the 1st female to win a class, at a nat event, winning the S/SA class.

A '63 Tempest won the A/FX class in '63. Not sure of all the other Pontiac wins back in those days. As mentioned, I've read that in those early days, the A/FX & S/SA classes ran in "Top Stock". But, the class was called SS, by some, even back in those early days.

"... Factory Experimental Pontiac Tempests.

The first one appeared in 1962 at the NHRA Winternationals, built at Mickey Thompson’s shop in Long Beach, CA, by Hayden
Proffitt and Lloyd Cox. It was a standard 4-cylinder Pontiac Tempest Le Mans, now fitted with a 421 Super Duty engine and
transmission out of one of Mickey Thompson’s Super Stock cars (legal Super Stock engines were an NHRA requirement at the time). The stock Tempest rear swing-axle was replaced by a Pontiac Catalina rear end. In short, it was a 1962 Pontiac Super Stocker in a compact Tempest body/chassis. It dominated the A/FX class at the 1962 NHRA Winternationals.

What worked well in the FX class in 1962, built by independent racers, would work just as well in 1963, built by the factory and distributed to the favored Pontiac racers around the country. Whereas the full size Catalina sedans had a 119 inch wheelbase, the Pontiac Tempest was built on a much smaller (and lighter) 112 inch wheelbase.

A total of twelve Pontiac Tempest A/FX cars were built, all with the 421 Super Duty engines. Six were Tempest coupes and six were Tempest station wagons. All the factory cars were delivered with a special rear-mounted trans-axle set up but many of the racers eventually switched to the standard engine-mounted transmissions and the Catalina rear axle assembly..."

[oldskool]

Qualifying begins today.

https://www.nhra.com/schedule/2020/n...nals-presented

According to the pre-entry list, looks like there are only 3 Pontiac powered Stockers entered. Randi Lyn Shipp. Brad Burton, & Leo Glasbrenner.

https://www.nhraeventreg.com/ListEve...=PC1&cc=8&rn=1

Brad & Leo are also entered in SS. Lindy Lindholm is entered, with his '74 Bird. But it was stolen. So I don't reckin he'll have it there. Looks like a max of 5 Pontiacs, total.

https://www.nhraeventreg.com/ListEve...=PC1&cc=7&rn=1

All 2 speed transmission only combo’s can be replaced with 3 speeds.

Originally Posted by oldskool

Another question:

I just noticed that the auto trans version of the '68 350 2-barrel engine, came with the 2-speed ST-300 trans.

(1) Under current rules, could you run a Glide in this combo ?

(3) Could you run a 3-speed auto, like a TH350 ?

Sorry, I'm just not up on all the rules. Makes sense that you'd have to keep the same number of speeds.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

All 2 speed transmission only combo’s can be replaced with 3 speeds.

Thanks for the info Todd !

Hey Richie Hoffman recommended you as a possible Pontiac Stocker engine builder. I know you stay busy racing. Do you also build Pontiac Stocker engines for others ?

If not, who would you recommend, up in the div 1 area ? For that matter, could you give us some other names, in any part of the country who build 'em, and who you'd trust to build one for you. I'm not talkin about as a personal favor to you, buy rather those who would build one for most anybody.

[oldskool]

I'd really prefer not to repeat most of what I post here.

BUT, I know how posts can get buried in a thread, and some will never go back & see 'em.

AND, this is something I'd really like some opinions on, from those who may know, or be a position to give a real world, experienced opinion about.

It concerns the 1974 2-barrel 400 engine. It uses the 1.25V carb, & the #46 heads, with 88.9cc chambers.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac

(1) NHRA weight for a base '74 Bird is 3545. A Formy is only slightly more. At the current 255hp factor, you could add a little weight & run M/SA, with a 12.85 index. I don't think a 2-barrel 400 could run that quick. But, I don't know.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2087

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

(2) It has been posted, & most here know that you can many times get NHRA to lower the hp factor on some combos that have not been flogged much, or at all. IF you could get them to lower this factor to 225hp, the Birds could run P/SA, with a 13.45 index.

So, the question is, how quick could this combo go ? Do ya'll think low 13's are possible ?

That 225hp number is 50hp less than the '74 Q-jet 400. Does a 225hp factor seem reasonable to ya'll ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

Even a bit lower might be reasonable. I say this, because the 1970 350 Chevy 2-barrel engine is 224hp, compared to the 290hp factor for the Q-jet version. That's a 66hp drop. And the 2-barrel is a 1.375V model.

So, if you dropped say 65hp from the Q-jet 400, you have a 210hp factor.

Just exactly what do ya'll think this combo could run, & how much do you think someone could get NHRA to lower the factor ?

I know a lot of ya'll have been familiar with the NHRA hp factoring system for a long time. So, I'd like your opinon on this.