Just talkin' here,

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

SO how fast is fast?
Something wrong with lower class cars...?
A lot of T/U/V stockers showing up...something wrong with these cars?

Sounds like you're assuming I have something against slow cars.....I don't. A couple of Months ago I was having a weak moment and considered a T/SA combination......briefly. I've got too many out of date race parts already

NHRA already has more Stockers than they know what to do with, there is no room for Pure Stock and Crate Motor. Not to mention the tech inspection hassles.

How fast? Late model car fast, not 60's fast. I'm not picking on 60's cars, there are plenty of REALLY fast 60's cars out there. But face it, the participant age is getting older. To survive, NHRA needs a younger crowd. It's sad to say, but most of them can't relate to the cars we grew up with. Most don't care about older cars, I see it every day. There are multi-generational family(s) out there racing. But they're the exception, not the rule. What classes do you see a younger generation attracted to?

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Sounds like you're assuming I have something against slow cars.....I don't. A couple of Months ago I was having a weak moment and considered a T/SA combination......briefly. I've got too many out of date race parts already

NHRA already has more Stockers than they know what to do with, there is no room for Pure Stock and Crate Motor. Not to mention the tech inspection hassles.

How fast? Late model car fast, not 60's fast. I'm not picking on 60's cars, there are plenty of REALLY fast 60's cars out there. But face it, the participant age is getting older. To survive, NHRA needs a younger crowd. It's sad to say, but most of them can't relate to the cars we grew up with. Most don't care about older cars, I see it every day. There are multi-generational family(s) out there racing. But they're the exception, not the rule. What classes do you see a younger generation attracted to?

Tom...you wrote it down..Dan wants slow(er) cars..!
You are taking a back stroke now?

NHRA shot Stock in the foot not adopting the IHRA classes.
They wanted control of the sport and the Sheep went along with it.

But ooopps.. the Threads are now talking about the demise of S/SS.
They did not defend their sport and now reality is striking.
I saw the writing and now it is at everyones feet.
You are reading those posts?

As for Tech...big deal...Been torn down many time.
NHRA will have the whole engines pulled to inspect them to death.
CM are easier to tech.
The number of PS cars was not logistically a big issue.
So that is a lame argument.

All the Canadian Open Races invite IHRA cars.
Why.... because it helps their car count.
Not every Division has a plethora of cars..
Especially the western states where local is a day drive.

Want to grow new Class racers.
Incorporate platforms they can afford and upgrade.
That is how all of us got started.
Add some foreign makes to open it up.

Before IHRA killed S/SS, 6 guys building brand new PS combinations.
Got tons of questions from others what to do.
A few discussed moving from Stock to PS.
Two were trying to get their newer cars certified for Class.
I have their forms..

Dodge, Chevy SS, Mustang owners complained their cars were not listed because of the 2008 limit IHRA decreed. Bang Bang

Think about it.
1969 Camaro Stocker probably has $million invested in it over the years.
Originally a 15 second car now running in the 8’s after 50 years.

You want to save Stock you got to go back the roots that got us started.
Where you could drive to the track.
Put your racing tires on and compete.

At Mason Dixon S/SS meet we had 3 PS cars.
2008 GTO and 2015 Chevy SS
Greg Orris’s 08 GTO can run in the 11’s and is Stock.
Been bracket racing since he got it.

I did the same thing with mine to run Brackets and IHRA Stock.
Step by step got my F/PS 95 Impala SS quicker every year.
My car can run on/under the K/SA on a cool day.
Working to make it run it on a hot day.

CM is adopted in SS, called GT
Dan Fletcher’s 1969 Camaro has a LS engine in his.
Our B-Body Impala SS community is doing it for the Street.
That would energize Stock with all the makes.
Even within a platform like a 403 in a mid 80’s Cutlass.
Adding a 4bbl on a 307 Nova or 2v 302 Mustang

If you want Stock to survive we have to band together.
Have to follow the trends that are working.
Traditional, CM, GT, PS and whatever to keep it interesting.
Get it back to a point where there are so many Stockers.
Tracks can have regular local races like they did in 70’s and 80s.

Think about the bigger picture
Stocker owners often have 2-3 friends or entire family’s following along.

If they build it they will come !
Then comes the evolution !

D

[J.R. Haddad]

Dan, you're points, while self serving, are not valid. As mentioned above,
NHRA has more cars than they can handle. That doesn't serve us well,
as we drive all over these 2 large countries chasing grade points. If you wanted to go to a Washington NFL game, and they told you that you
had to go to 8 college games of THEIR choice before you could buy the NFL tickets, you would tell them
that they were nuts and walk away. That's what we do now in S/SS.
Why? Cause we're sick and twisted and have the NHRA needle in
our arm. We also have the greatest group of friends one could ever
hope for. We have a great time if we lose, and an even better time if
we win. There is a reasonable amount of youth scattered amongst the
classes, but if you think the 60's, 70's and 80's hot rodding era will re-invent itself, it ain't gonna happen. I'm going to enjoy and love what we have while we have it. J.R.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by J.R. Haddad

Dan, you're points, while self serving, are not valid. As mentioned above,
NHRA has more cars than they can handle. That doesn't serve us well,
as we drive all over these 2 large countries chasing grade points. If you wanted to go to a Washington NFL game, and they told you that you
had to go to 8 college games of THEIR choice before you could buy the NFL tickets, you would tell them
that they were nuts and walk away. That's what we do now in S/SS.
Why? Cause we're sick and twisted and have the NHRA needle in
our arm. We also have the greatest group of friends one could ever
hope for. We have a great time if we lose, and an even better time if
we win. There is a reasonable amount of youth scattered amongst the
classes, but if you think the 60's, 70's and 80's hot rodding era will re-invent itself, it ain't gonna happen. I'm going to enjoy and love what we have while we have it. J.R.

Not about NHRA..Not self serving.
It is About more business to local tracks.
As for hot rodding it is always reinventing itself..!
The new generation defines what that is.

Yes and do enjoy what we have...!

D

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Tom...you wrote it down..Dan wants slow(er) cars..!
You are taking a back stroke now?
D

Dan.....You're the man, it's good to have you around. Don't let me ruffle your feathers.
I did write it down.....You want Pure Stock and Crate Motor cars.....That's the slow cars I was referring to.
I don't know if I need to work on my communication skills or your reading comprehension.....'cause I'm not trying to argue.

I'm trying to make you understand that NHRA has too much on their plate already, trying to keep the "big show"(not Stock & SS) classes in check. Tech Inspectors/Officials are stretched thin trying to maintain control of those classes. It's asking a lot to have Officials knowledgeable in the nuances of these classes and capable of conducting an thorough teardown on a Stocker or Super Stocker.
Your average Top Sportsman/Dragster team brings just as many paying crew to the track as Stock and SS. NHRA doesn't have to tear down these cars, yet gets to profit from the expanded certifications and safety equipment required for these classes. Certainly you recognize that.....We don't have to like it.

I hope you don't think I want Super Stock and Stock to go away, that's not the case. But we need to be aware that pushing for more classes in an already crowded and challenging Eliminator doesn't serve to improve the sanctioning body's viewpoint.
I don't have the answers to the situation, I want to understand why we see seemingly arbitrary decisions taking place.

[63corvette]

I no longer race stock however, I still race since retirement SG so I see this from several classes perspective. I have class win trophys before they were Wallys.
NHRA has cut its staff and the length of the events so the stock and super stock classes which require more tech time (staff for fuel check and weights/classification) in my opinion will continue to suffer.
Just look what happened to Pro Stock.
NHRA does not even tech cars at the Nationals however, fuel checks etc are required for some of the classes which takes time and staff.
SG, SC, TS, and TD takes no time for staff at the Nationals. No tech or fuel checks.
Weight for these classes is the only requirement and that is not always done.
The real issue for all those classes except SG is the time it takes to run those classes due to burnouts across the starting line and the TS and TD taking so long to prepare for their run.
From my perspective NHRA is all about cutting costs to run the events and it costs them more to run some classes than others. TV time is also a consideration.
It is really all about money and that is the same thing in any business.
Just My 2 Cents and Observation
Rick Cates
Canyon TX. SG 56 in 2019. SG 76 in 2020

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by 63corvette

It is really all about money and that is the same thing in any business.
Just My 2 Cents and Observation
Rick Cates
Canyon TX. SG 56 in 2019. SG 76 in 2020

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

[63corvette]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

I agree about the non profit however, it is still all about the money.
Not for the membership or entries would be less and payouts more.
Today it is all about the pro's show and money.
It was just my observations from sportsman racing NHRA since the 1960's.
Rick Cates
Canyon TX.

[Tom Broome]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

BUT!!!!! The NHRA is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT business! If it can even be considered a business. Is it an organization? A club?
It is SUPPOSED to exist for the benefit of it's members not for the benefit of it's B-O-D's salaries and golden parachutes!
Some time ago, then Pres. Tom Compton tried to "split" the Pros from the Sportsmen in order to make the Pros into a "for profit" business. It would have made the Sportsman NHRA into a smaller but more Sportsman friendly organization. I don't know what ever happened to that but I'm guessing that the B-O-D wasn't going to be happy with the ($$$) outcome.

I agree NHRA is "supposed" to be not for profit....and we understand why and how they maintain that status. I'm trying to understand the TV side of the "business". It seems that since NASCAR is losing TV share, maybe NHRA is trying to find some footing as a broadcast venue. I wonder where the profits (if there are any profits) go. Could the broadcast market be split into a something separate from the racing organization? Could the pressure on the Sportsman program be a way to consolidate the "fast/exciting" TV broadcast? Perhaps NHRA is trying to create some kind of "reality TV/racing broadcast" package that doesn't include the current Sportsman program?

I know......Kinda' crazy......No I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. Just tossing ideas out.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by Tom Broome

Dan.....You're the man, it's good to have you around. Don't let me ruffle your feathers.
I did write it down.....You want Pure Stock and Crate Motor cars.....That's the slow cars I was referring to..

Thank you Tom
This is fun Bench Racing..
Nobody can get a Ticket !

Still do not understand SLOW CARS..!!
PS and CM could fit well in the current A-Z index.
PS cars would fit from G to T/S.
CM's go all the way to AA/S.
Figure my F/PS would fall between O/P/Q/R.
Depending how NHRA rated PS Engines.

My contention is that lower cost alternatives invite Hot Rodders to get into our Sport.

As for NHRA Management, dig what you wrote in your second Paragraph.

My question is what made it work before all the cost cutting?
What made it work before some of the rule changes?

You could buy a car from the Dealer, tune it up and go racing in Stock.
That is what Bracket Racers do now and nobody is considering Stock.
Reeling in new racers to our sport is like fishing, need to lure them in.

There are a lot of second hand affordable Chevy SS, GTO, G8, Dodges, Mustang, Camaro on the market racer want to get into PS.
They are not going to tear a car completely apart to race them in Stock.
Most do not have the facilities.

If I were managing NHRA and the issue is with too many cars.
Would spread it out to a 10 day week.
Have Class Run Offs, National Record Runs, Tear Down, T&T, 4 races
Pair down and race 8 on Saturday. Finalists on Sunday of each heat.
Have some evening entertainment.

One thing that kills Public Interest is the lack of National Records.
That was a real thing years ago.
One minor issue no Points are earned setting them.

I am trying to provide ideas and solutions.
Majority of our cars are 30 ,40, 50, 60, 70 years old.
Our generation is passing away very quickly.
The Big 3 have made some hot new cars which have been a big hit.

Young racers in our day were 20..now more like 50 - 80 years old.
That would be interesting to know everyone's age.
Still most of the older well healed drivers are buying the new cars.

Peace