If an advocate could be found - what would you say?

[SS/1230]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Somebody please enlighten me to these alleged important issues and the implied failing health of NHRA Sportsman Racing.

I'm not entirely sure how the issues aren't obvious. Contingency for one has become a joke. Even if you do win, you have to fight for every penny. That's only if the company doesn't create a loophole (i.e Weld racing rims creating a "purchase in the last 3 years" rule. Who the hell buys rims every 3 years). How about the lack of payout for divisional and national level? Entry fees continue to go up, yet the pay outs go down.The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event. Also, at the divisional level, they pay $250 for semi-final loss in a 7 round race in super stock. That's a joke, when it cost $225 for my wife and I to get in. What about all the merchandise and promo stuff racers used to get at the gates of a National event? If anyone still has their blue Powerade cooler they'll know what I'm saying. (As an example) I remember getting that cooler full with random stuff. That was when National Event were $210, and if you won or R/U Valvoline would pay you at the track for every sticker without question. Now you win less $, can't get paid from contingency, and it cost $370 to get into a national event. I don't know how any of this can show how NHRA is treating sportsman racers the way they should. I think we're the back bone of NHRA, the passion of this sport, and we get treated the worst. How many racers are under 35 that are able to pay and race on their own budget without a 1st generation paying the way? I'd say less that 2%. They are making it impossible to attract new young blood and for the current ones survive. When the older generation of racers retire, what generation will continue to make the sportsman ranks grow? No such thing as racing on a budget anymore. They turned it into a rich mans sport, and they wonder why car counts are down... their solution, "lets just lower qoutas then, problem solved..."

[Carguy49]

I remember a story of a west coast racer having so much stuff when he returned from Indy years ago he was glad that he raced a station wagon so it would all fit. Times certainly have changed.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by SS/1230

The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event.

All-in-all a great post, but let's keep the complaints legitimate. I can't speak for past flyers but today, there is no 'semi-final money' in the purse listing.

I don't think they are turning away 10-20 entry fees so they can screw the semi-finalists out of $100 each.

[1320racer]

Originally Posted by SS/1230

I'm not entirely sure how the issues aren't obvious. Contingency for one has become a joke. Even if you do win, you have to fight for every penny. That's only if the company doesn't create a loophole (i.e Weld racing rims creating a "purchase in the last 3 years" rule. Who the hell buys rims every 3 years).

How is that NHRA's fault or doing. The fact is many in the aftermarket performance industry no longer see the benefit to pay us for using their product, we are going to buy it regardless and it's no longer a marketing tool with internet websites and social media. As I stated in a previous post, not one company that I'm aware of has closed their doors after pulling out of the contingency program and I'll bet it has help most if not all's bottom line. That said, there are still companies that want to support racers and the NHRA and do.

How about the lack of payout for divisional and national level? Entry fees continue to go up, yet the pay outs go down.The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event.

That's your assumption not fact.

Also, at the divisional level, they pay $250 for semi-final loss in a 7 round race in super stock. That's a joke, when it cost $225 for my wife and I to get in.

it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game.

What about all the merchandise and promo stuff racers used to get at the gates of a National event? If anyone still has their blue Powerade cooler they'll know what I'm saying. (As an example) I remember getting that cooler full with random stuff. That was when National Event were $210, and if you won or R/U Valvoline would pay you at the track for every sticker without question. Now you win less $, can't get paid from contingency, and it cost $370 to get into a national event.

refer back to my comments about contingency sponsors.

I don't know how any of this can show how NHRA is treating sportsman racers the way they should. I think we're the back bone of NHRA, the passion of this sport, and we get treated the worst.

Your opinion. All I know is what I see with my own eyes. Divisionals with 300-400 cars on the property and National event quotas that are easily fill and some racers complaining they can't get in. That tells the NHRA they are doing it right!

How many racers are under 35 that are able to pay and race on their own budget without a 1st generation paying the way? I'd say less that 2%. They are making it impossible to attract new young blood and for the current ones survive. When the older generation of racers retire, what generation will continue to make the sportsman ranks grow? No such thing as racing on a budget anymore. They turned it into a rich mans sport, and they wonder why car counts are down... their solution, "lets just lower qoutas then, problem solved..."

1. your assumption.
2. young men today 17-30 are not interested in cars no mind racing.
3. ALL racing is on life support and has been for decades.
4. Racing was always expensive. I couldn't afford to compete nor could my friends when we were younger. I started when I was 30. I'll also say the NHRA never had a marketing program to attract new racers and grow.
5. you want change? Get 100s of racers to boycott divisionals and national events. Good luck with that.
Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing. Enjoy it while you still can, I will.

[SS/1230]

I understand your stance and your beliefs on some of these things. However (1320racer)....."How is that NHRA's fault or doing. The fact is many in the aftermarket performance industry no longer see the benefit to pay us for using their product, we are going to buy it regardless and it's no longer a marketing tool with internet websites and social media. As I stated in a previous post, not one company that I'm aware of has closed their doors after pulling out of the contingency program and I'll bet it has help most if not all's bottom line. That said, there are still companies that want to support racers and the NHRA and do." I personally dont care about the companies bottom line, I care about mine. We buy a product, we win, they pay us. You'd think it would be that easy. However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from. The goal is to get us to buy the products and if we win, they pay us *if it fits the stipulations*. And guess what, even if we buy the product, and its not within the limitations, NHRA and the company still get paid. Only person who doesn't is us. NHRA is making their money and could care less if we get ours. So they play a hand in that.... NHRA isn't innocent in that sense.

Next, you think that the quotas are my assumption, not fact. But its fact that I got to the semi-final (4 cars) at a national in a 6 round race, and won 5th round loss money. $100 or not, its still a way for them to cut payout... fact.

Next, "it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game", doesn't mean I have to like it, and I know a majority feel the same way I do even though they still play the game.

Next, when was the last time you saw 300-400 cars at EVERY divisional in D-1? for the exception of 2018, I think Virginia had less that 50 cars in SS each of the last 3 years prior to that. Epping doesn't draw many cars either (50's in SS).. The only track that drew the most cars every year was E-town, and obviously you cant race there anymore. 2018 @ Epping: 17 cars in SG, 35 in SC, 27 in SST, 12 in Comp, 52 in SS, and 92 in stock.. thats 235 cars if you're counting.

I'm going to continue to race because its what I love to do. Fortunately I'm 1 of few young men today who is 32 and who is interested in cars and appreciates what we do. But being someone who has been around racing their whole life, I cant help but notice the changes, doesn't mean I have to like them. "Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing.." That I can agree with.

[1320racer]

Originally Posted by SS/1230

I personally dont care about the companies bottom line, I care about mine. We buy a product, we win, they pay us. You'd think it would be that easy. However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from. The goal is to get us to buy the products and if we win, they pay us *if it fits the stipulations*. And guess what, even if we buy the product, and its not within the limitations, NHRA and the company still get paid. Only person who doesn't is us. NHRA is making their money and could care less if we get ours. So they play a hand in that.... NHRA isn't innocent in that sense.

you know what the contingency sponsor's requirements are to collect before you put their decal on your car. If you don't that's on you. That said, I'll say again, it doesn't matter, we are buying their products regardless and none of them pay unless you get to the final which the majority of racers don't and never do.

Next, you think that the quotas are my assumption, not fact. But its fact that I got to the semi-final (4 cars) at a national in a 6 round race, and won 5th round loss money. $100 or not, its still a way for them to cut payout... fact.

they are infact your assumption and the payout information is known before you enter.

Next, "it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game", doesn't mean I have to like it, and I know a majority feel the same way I do even though they still play the game.

another assumption. If you're right and I'm wrong, go get hundreds of racers to boycott 1 divisional and 1 national event.

Next, when was the last time you saw 300-400 cars at EVERY divisional in D-1? for the exception of 2018, I think Virginia had less that 50 cars in SS each of the last 3 years prior to that. Epping doesn't draw many cars either (50's in SS).. The only track that drew the most cars every year was E-town, and obviously you cant race there anymore. 2018 @ Epping: 17 cars in SG, 35 in SC, 27 in SST, 12 in Comp, 52 in SS, and 92 in stock.. thats 235 cars if you're counting.

There were over 300 cars at every divisional in D1 I attended last season which were all except Virginia and at most it rained some if not every day.

I'm going to continue to race because its what I love to do. Fortunately I'm 1 of few young men today who is 32 and who is interested in cars and appreciates what we do. But being someone who has been around racing their whole life, I cant help but notice the changes, doesn't mean I have to like them. "Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing.." That I can agree with.

the decline in all of motorsports started when you were in diapers. Again, stop complaining and concerning yourself with who has the $ and who is getting paid and enjoy what we do while you still can. If $ is why you do this, quit and go bracket racing. THAT'S where the BIG $ is for racers.

[SS/1230]

The decline in all of motorsports started when you were in diapers. Again, stop complaining and concerning yourself with who has the $ and who is getting paid and enjoy what we do while you still can. If $ is why you do this, quit and go bracket racing. THAT'S where the BIG $ is for racers.[/QUOTE]

Pretty clear I don't do it for the money..do any of us (other than the few full time sportsman)?

"There were over 300 cars at every divisional in D1 I attended last season which were all except Virginia and at most it rained some if not every day.".. I gave you Epping as well, and Virginia 3 years prior (not rain related). I specifically looked on DRC to prove my point.... **Epping 235 cars.**

I'm definitely not a boycott'er... and I don't push my opinions on other people. But I do talk to a lot of racers with the same feelings as me, that still show up to all 6 divisionals. So your point is made that I couldn't get 100 racers to boycott, but I could absolutely get you 100 racers (probably more) that are currently unhappy about the same things and think NHRA screws the sportsman.. is that a fair compromise?

I see you're from NJ, try moving to Long Island and tell me you still want to go to 6 divisionals...ha

At least our chat is getting shorter with each thread lol...

[1320racer]

Originally Posted by SS/1230

Pretty clear I don't do it for the money..do any of us (other than the few full time sportsman)?

I don't and my friends don't and that's my point. Sure it would be nice to race for more $, everyone wants more $ but the fact is we don't race for $ and unless you win or runner up most everyone is leaving the event with less in their wallet then they had days earlier when they paid to enter.

I specifically looked on DRC to prove my point.... **Epping 235 cars.**

I didn't check but I was there and we won It was the last race in D1 and no surprise the car count was lower. Many aren't going to travel to the last race if they are not in the running to finish in the top 10.

I'm definitely not a boycott'er... and I don't push my opinions on other people. But I do talk to a lot of racers with the same feelings as me, that still show up to all 6 divisionals. So your point is made that I couldn't get 100 racers to boycott, but I could absolutely get you 100 racers (probably more) that are currently unhappy about the same things and think NHRA screws the sportsman.. is that a fair compromise?

I don't know how many are unhappy, it never comes up in conversation with my friends and competitors. It's not the reason I travel hundreds of miles and pay my $ and it's not their's either. But I'll say again to those that are unhappy, quit and start being happy, life is too short. I'm having a great time doing this with my son. Don't know how much longer he's going to want to do this. I take it one season at a time. Hell don't know how much longer I'll be here, none of us do.

I see you're from NJ, try moving to Long Island and tell me you still want to go to 6 divisionals...ha

I would still go to all the divisionals and a few out of division as we did this past season, competing at Silver Dollar in Reynolds, Georgia and Rockingham Dragway, NC. BTW, I work in NYC, live in north jersey and all the D1 divisional races are 3-7 hours from my house.

At least our chat is getting shorter with each thread lol...

seems to be.

[SS/1230]

BTW, I work in NYC, live in north jersey and all the D1 divisional races are 3-7 hours from my house.[/QUOTE]

I meant towing... Working is one thing, you have to go to work, and I doubt you take your rig to the city everyday.. It normally takes me 3 hours with the trailer just to get to the Verrazzano Bridge from Oceanside (29 Miles).. lol Used to take me almost 4 hours to get to Englishtown on a Thursday.. and that was only 65 miles.. so I feel your pain, but in a different way.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by SS/1230

However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from.

NHRA definitely has a hand in the contingency cookie jar, which has driven away companies that would otherwise participate. There are several companies that run independent contingency programs for this reason. I am sure (yes, Ed, I'm assuming; not fact) that other companies have just thrown up their hands and walked away from the idea.

I'm still baffled that you're upset about losing 5th round and 'only' getting 5th round loser money. "If the quotas were higher, I would have lost at 8 cars and still received 5th round loser money!"