A subject for discussion on a winter's day.

FED 387 · 02-11-2019, 01:34 PM

Well if you look at the Entries for all the different National races some have all or a few of the following Pro MOD/Top Sportsman/Top Dragster/Top Fuel Harley/Factory Stock Showdowns IN ADDITION TO the regular classes that have always been present in the past plus the T shirt crew parking group/ the exhibition cars and nostalgic exhibition runs ETC.--- the pit areas have generally not gotten bigger while the size of the rigs have--- such as motorhomes and stacker trailers or Semi tractor trailer combos for many racers--sure some guys still have a truck and trailer many don't ---you cant put 10 pounds into a 5 pound bag they are trying to accommodate as many racers as possible with the limited space they have thats part of the problem-----so you add it all up------many more classes---extremely large rigs and hospitality areas---- manufacturers midway -----same size pit areas as 20 years ago----how do you suggest doing it???

Billy Nees · 02-11-2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

Well if you look at the Entries for all the different National races some have all or a few of the following Pro MOD/Top Sportsman/Top Dragster/Top Fuel Harley/Factory Stock Showdowns IN ADDITION TO the regular classes that have always been present in the past plus the T shirt crew parking group/ the exhibition cars and nostalgic exhibition runs ETC.--- the pit areas have generally not gotten bigger while the size of the rigs have--- such as motorhomes and stacker trailers or Semi tractor trailer combos for many racers--sure some guys still have a truck and trailer many don't ---you cant put 10 pounds into a 5 pound bag they are trying to accommodate as many racers as possible with the limited space they have thats part of the problem-----so you add it all up------many more classes---extremely large rigs and hospitality areas---- manufacturers midway -----same size pit areas as 20 years ago----how do you suggest doing it???

Every thing that you bring up is absolutely correct. It also is/has turned the pro show into a "for profit" entity in everything but name.
Is it time to re-examine Compton's idea of splitting the dog-and-pony show into the "for profit" that it has become and splitting it from the "not-for-profit" Sportsman Racers and would it be to our (Sportsman Racers) benefit?

Lenny5160 · 02-11-2019, 02:14 PM

I thought the idea back then was to sell off the Pro side to DirecTV, or the founder of DirecTV. They would keep us around, since we are the cash cows.

Honestly, it wouldn't bother me to no longer race with the Pro show. I really only do it once per year because it is close, and when I'm eliminated I hit the road.

FED 387 · 02-11-2019, 02:28 PM

Billy--The problem as I see it is if HRA splits the show to say Saturday is Sportsman racing only and Sunday would be dedicated to the "floorshow" and Pros only what is HRA going to do after you run first round of 18-24 pairs of Pros off and do the corresponding track clean up on Sunday so 2nd round you only have about 9-12 pairs of cars then another hour to hour and a half between the 2nd and third round ---then you have to 4-6 pairs for the 3 round ----then you end up with 60-90 minutes down time between each round what happens what are you going to do with all that time in between rounds while everyone rebuilds their *****??? I see your point but how can it work??? Unless you run all the Sportsman FINALS on Sunday between rounds of the Pro cars--what really messes things up is you now have Pro Mod running al of their rounds on Sunday and the "showcased" Factory Stock class running entirely also on Sunday-- Too many cars too many classes all trying to run on Sunday and some tracks have "curfews" which cuts into available track time too And I almost forgot the all important JR Dragsters and ET Finalists from somewhere that they need to "showcase too" ---FED 387

cicero819 · 02-11-2019, 04:11 PM

Here is the problem as I see it(my two cents). I've just gotten back from the Div 2 race in Orlando. The first problem 1) no advertisement, not one red cent was spent to let potential customer that a great show is coming to town. 2) for some reason the track operator doesn't care the have enough staff to welcome you and tell you where to park.3) the track preparation was poor(when cars were going down the track you could see the glue flying of the wheels, they took too much time to resume sending cars down the track after a possible oildowns(just too slow, i saw people leaving and telling me that they couldn't stand the lack of organization) 4) sorry S/G and S/C you need to get the throttle timers out of the cars(way to complicated for the average fan) I know that you will tell me to fly a kite, but when you confuse 7/8 of the people spectating, don't ask why nobody shows up to watch).4) have the race start on Saturday not Friday, guys who work for a living can't attend either as spectators or participant, this should be a saturday and Sunday show only. 5) Allow a class for the Hondas,Toyotas,Subarus, this is what the young people are tuning, this is their Camaros and 55 Chev. You need to advertise or die, you need someone to promote the show. FUNNY CARS< DRAGSTERS RUNNING ALL WEEKENDS!!!! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! I didn't hear one single radio ad.You could have the tech and inspection done at a local shopping mall parking lot, have someone in charge of getting the words to the media(print,TV). If you don't advertise you can be sure nobody will attend.As I said my two cents.

Dan Bennett · 02-11-2019, 04:48 PM

I haven't been around the races for a while but was making my living at them when all this came up. I sepnt hours and hours at the tracks and had many conversations with a lot of people close to the action - and of course it was all off the record and not to be printed or attributed.

Sportsman racing was in trouble even when Wally was still alive. Remember, then as it is now, the people in charge had business and accounting backgrounds. They were experts at looking at spreadsheets, balance sheets, and generating profit. Some probably couldn't have told a Mustang from a Camaro if the emblems were removed. But no one was openly downgrading the non-pro side of it because they knew Wally would not stand for it.

Everybody I talked to who might be in a position to know said the same thing: the proposal to split pro vs. sportsman was ONLY to make the NHRA more attractive to buyers. I'm not sure if their lawyers couldn't figure out a way to get around the non-profit thing or if it just didn't make sense to a propective buyer. Connie Kalitta, for one, said that he'd done the numbers on the deal and it just didn't pencil out.

A good point was brought up regarding filling time between rounds. The NHRA could book in some entertainment acts to fill that time. But why shell out money (that could go to salaries and bonuses) if you could get something for the fans to watch - and not just for free, the performers would pay YOU. So yes, they need the sportsman racer but sadly, not in the way any of us want.

Sorry to be so pessimistic. But back then, there were people in the tower or on the grounds who loved cars, loved racing, and had the same look in their eye as we all do. The best I can tell, they're all gone.

We look at it as sport or a hobby. The people making decisions these days look at it as something that can generate money, and more money is more better regardless of what the whole organization was supposed to be about.

As for what would have happened if sportman racing had gone off on its own back then - I think any nationally organized effort would be gone by now. Look at all the different people who've tried to get an organizatiojn or series started. Some looked like they had promise, and others were doomed from the beginning. I won't say it's impossible but whatever or whoever it would take hasn't stepped forward so far.

02-11-2019, 01:34 PM	#1
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 530 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day. Well if you look at the Entries for all the different National races some have all or a few of the following Pro MOD/Top Sportsman/Top Dragster/Top Fuel Harley/Factory Stock Showdowns IN ADDITION TO the regular classes that have always been present in the past plus the T shirt crew parking group/ the exhibition cars and nostalgic exhibition runs ETC.--- the pit areas have generally not gotten bigger while the size of the rigs have--- such as motorhomes and stacker trailers or Semi tractor trailer combos for many racers--sure some guys still have a truck and trailer many don't ---you cant put 10 pounds into a 5 pound bag they are trying to accommodate as many racers as possible with the limited space they have thats part of the problem-----so you add it all up------many more classes---extremely large rigs and hospitality areas---- manufacturers midway -----same size pit areas as 20 years ago----how do you suggest doing it???

02-11-2019, 02:14 PM	#3
Lenny5160 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN Posts: 898 Likes: 604 Liked 431 Times in 224 Posts	Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day. I thought the idea back then was to sell off the Pro side to DirecTV, or the founder of DirecTV. They would keep us around, since we are the cash cows. Honestly, it wouldn't bother me to no longer race with the Pro show. I really only do it once per year because it is close, and when I'm eliminated I hit the road. __________________ S/ST 51 S/C 53

02-11-2019, 02:28 PM	#4
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 530 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day. Billy--The problem as I see it is if HRA splits the show to say Saturday is Sportsman racing only and Sunday would be dedicated to the "floorshow" and Pros only what is HRA going to do after you run first round of 18-24 pairs of Pros off and do the corresponding track clean up on Sunday so 2nd round you only have about 9-12 pairs of cars then another hour to hour and a half between the 2nd and third round ---then you have to 4-6 pairs for the 3 round ----then you end up with 60-90 minutes down time between each round what happens what are you going to do with all that time in between rounds while everyone rebuilds their ****??? I see your point but how can it work??? Unless you run all the Sportsman FINALS on Sunday between rounds of the Pro cars--what really messes things up is you now have Pro Mod running al of their rounds on Sunday and the "showcased" Factory Stock class running entirely also on Sunday-- Too many cars too many classes all trying to run on Sunday and some tracks have "curfews" which cuts into available track time too And I almost forgot the all important JR Dragsters and ET Finalists from somewhere that they need to "showcase too" ---FED 387 Last edited by FED 387; 02-11-2019 at 02:34 PM. Reason: spelling*

02-11-2019, 04:11 PM	#5
cicero819 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Aylmer Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,086 Likes: 31 Liked 69 Times in 30 Posts	Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day. Here is the problem as I see it(my two cents). I've just gotten back from the Div 2 race in Orlando. The first problem 1) no advertisement, not one red cent was spent to let potential customer that a great show is coming to town. 2) for some reason the track operator doesn't care the have enough staff to welcome you and tell you where to park.3) the track preparation was poor(when cars were going down the track you could see the glue flying of the wheels, they took too much time to resume sending cars down the track after a possible oildowns(just too slow, i saw people leaving and telling me that they couldn't stand the lack of organization) 4) sorry S/G and S/C you need to get the throttle timers out of the cars(way to complicated for the average fan) I know that you will tell me to fly a kite, but when you confuse 7/8 of the people spectating, don't ask why nobody shows up to watch).4) have the race start on Saturday not Friday, guys who work for a living can't attend either as spectators or participant, this should be a saturday and Sunday show only. 5) Allow a class for the Hondas,Toyotas,Subarus, this is what the young people are tuning, this is their Camaros and 55 Chev. You need to advertise or die, you need someone to promote the show. FUNNY CARS< DRAGSTERS RUNNING ALL WEEKENDS!!!! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! I didn't hear one single radio ad.You could have the tech and inspection done at a local shopping mall parking lot, have someone in charge of getting the words to the media(print,TV). If you don't advertise you can be sure nobody will attend.As I said my two cents. Last edited by cicero819; 02-11-2019 at 04:13 PM.

02-11-2019, 04:48 PM	#6
Dan Bennett Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 439 Likes: 853 Liked 595 Times in 136 Posts	Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day. I haven't been around the races for a while but was making my living at them when all this came up. I sepnt hours and hours at the tracks and had many conversations with a lot of people close to the action - and of course it was all off the record and not to be printed or attributed. Sportsman racing was in trouble even when Wally was still alive. Remember, then as it is now, the people in charge had business and accounting backgrounds. They were experts at looking at spreadsheets, balance sheets, and generating profit. Some probably couldn't have told a Mustang from a Camaro if the emblems were removed. But no one was openly downgrading the non-pro side of it because they knew Wally would not stand for it. Everybody I talked to who might be in a position to know said the same thing: the proposal to split pro vs. sportsman was ONLY to make the NHRA more attractive to buyers. I'm not sure if their lawyers couldn't figure out a way to get around the non-profit thing or if it just didn't make sense to a propective buyer. Connie Kalitta, for one, said that he'd done the numbers on the deal and it just didn't pencil out. A good point was brought up regarding filling time between rounds. The NHRA could book in some entertainment acts to fill that time. But why shell out money (that could go to salaries and bonuses) if you could get something for the fans to watch - and not just for free, the performers would pay YOU. So yes, they need the sportsman racer but sadly, not in the way any of us want. Sorry to be so pessimistic. But back then, there were people in the tower or on the grounds who loved cars, loved racing, and had the same look in their eye as we all do. The best I can tell, they're all gone. We look at it as sport or a hobby. The people making decisions these days look at it as something that can generate money, and more money is more better regardless of what the whole organization was supposed to be about. As for what would have happened if sportman racing had gone off on its own back then - I think any nationally organized effort would be gone by now. Look at all the different people who've tried to get an organizatiojn or series started. Some looked like they had promise, and others were doomed from the beginning. I won't say it's impossible but whatever or whoever it would take hasn't stepped forward so far.