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Old 07-29-2018, 12:48 PM   #1
Casey Miles
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
Myron,
I really want to know how many people are truly considering quitting ONLY because they can't run very far under the index.


And out of those, how many are REALLY dedicating serious effort to going faster?


Those are serious questions.


Because often, the reality is people really aren't trying. And they're really just looking for a reason to quit.


Let's just be brutally honest here. If you REALLY want to go fast, you can get help, if you're actually trying. Hell, even the vast majority of the truly fast racers will go out of their way to help a slow guy pick up. But you have to WANT to go faster, you have to be willing to at least work, and bring your stuff to the track, and then all you have to do is ask for help.


Sorry, but when I first started working on Kevin's car, I really didn't have to ask for help. I asked 2-3 questions, and next thing I knew, more than half a dozen really fast racers, and top flight engine builders, were burning up my phone and my email offering help. And I mean bending over backwards, and pretty much taking money out of their own pockets.


Barry Parker was one of them, with tuning advice, and offering to loan me a carburetor. Keith Lynch not only sold me a carburetor core for 1/3 of what it was worth, but he gave me his place in line at Clark Holroyd's, and Clark stepped up, too, never mind tuning advice from both over the years. Barry Polley helped me when we killed the first engine due to a broken rocker stud. When a bad camshaft hurt one of our engines, Darrell Wikle sold me a new cam, at cost, as well as a brand new set of pistons, pins, and rings, then spent 3-4 hours on the phone with me. Arnold Greene helped me, not only with our stuff, but with stuff for others. Steve Calabro and Joe Fasano helped, too. Even Bobby DeArmond helped me. And Hell, Jimmy Bridges has helped me out more times than I can count. The list goes on, it would probably be a shorter list of who hasn't helped.



And then I've done my best to pay it forward, helping pretty much anyone who asks, and if I can't help, I can usually find someone who can, and I've rarely sent anyone anywhere for help that they didn't get it.


We keep hearing about all of these people who "can't go fast", and "wants to quit", but seriously, how many of them are really working on their car and can't make progress and can't get help. Because honestly, if you're a class racer and you want help, but can't get it, you probably ought to ask yourself what you're doing that makes people avoid helping you, because class racers just ain't that way.


Here's the deal. If you're not going fast, get some help, go to the track, and work on your stuff. If money is a problem, then maybe you need to do what Gary Parker said he did in this thread, park your stuff for a while, save your money, learn, and work on it, then go when you're ready. I know how he feels, we've parked our stuff, for a lot longer than we wanted, because we can't devote the time and money to do it right. My friend Barry Polley has done the same thing. Sometimes you have to. And we're not crying about it, nor are we trying to get anyone slowed down. We're saving our money, biding our time, and planning a comeback.





And let me be clear, I'm not advocating lowering the indexes, I'm really a proponent of changes to the AHFS, and changes to both points and payouts to make it pay to be fast.
I'm kind of taken back about not working on a combo and I know it's not a personal attack on any racers. There's plenty of racers like me, I've had my car now for over 40 years because it's my car from when I was a teenager,
I'm not going change the combo and I still work pretty hard on it. When I was starting to qualify at the middle of the sheets, nhra took 3 tenths away and because I have an engine family related to earlier models which can run smaller lighter cranks I got hp. I have a combo that has had hp on it since Jr. Stock. You can only throw so much money at it and come to the realization that it is what it is.

Casey Miles
248H stock

Last edited by Casey Miles; 07-29-2018 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Qualify
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Old 07-29-2018, 03:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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I'm kind of taken back about not working on a combo and I know it's not a personal attack on any racers. There's plenty of racers like me, I've had my car now for over 40 years because it's my car from when I was a teenager,
I'm not going change the combo and I still work pretty hard on it. When I was starting to qualify at the middle of the sheets, nhra took 3 tenths away and because I have an engine family related to earlier models which can run smaller lighter cranks I got hp. I have a combo that has had hp on it since Jr. Stock. You can only throw so much money at it and come to the realization that it is what it is.

Casey Miles
248H stock
There are several fast 302 cars out there.......
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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There are several fast 302 cars out there.......
But I'd be willing to bet that Casey's is "Stock".
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:29 PM   #4
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But I'd be willing to bet that Casey's is "Stock".
I agree Billy 10000000000000000%
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:46 PM   #5
Alan Roehrich
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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But I'd be willing to bet that Casey's is "Stock".

Yeah, Billy, but those ain't the rules anymore. Whether any of us like it or not. How "Stock" it is doesn't matter anymore. They ain't turning back time, or rolling back the rules. It is what it is. If you want to race, and go fast, you keep up with the rules, whether you like them or not. If you choose to refuse to keep up with the rules, you pretty much can't complain if you can't be competitive.
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:15 PM   #6
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But I'd be willing to bet that Casey's is "Stock".
I wasn't questioning that. As Alan has stated, if you aren't running by the current rulebook, you are leaving performance on the table.

When I started running Stock things were much "stocker". I liked it better back then. For one, it was way cheaper!
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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I wasn't questioning that.
I didn't think that you were.
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:11 PM   #8
Casey Miles
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

I know that there are several 302 cars that fly, but there is difference of just how much money I'm willing to spend on mine. I can tell anyone that there is no lack of effort on my part working towards bettering the performance of the car. There is also the factor of trying to preserve the originality of the Z/28 as a Stocker.

It makes me wonder that all the advantages that a solid lifter engine had which got lost with the valve spring and hydraulic lifters rules. A hydraulic based engine didn't get an increase in HP and the solid lifter based engines didn't get a reduction in HP. The factory didn't make the true performance cars hydraulic lifter, they came as solid lifters with mandatory disk brakes.

So as hard as I work on my combo, power is given away by NHRA to the lower powered engine families. Give them the HP they should be rated like a solid lifter engine.

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Old 07-29-2018, 05:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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Originally Posted by Casey Miles View Post
I know that there are several 302 cars that fly, but there is difference of just how much money I'm willing to spend on mine. I can tell anyone that there is no lack of effort on my part working towards bettering the performance of the car. There is also the factor of trying to preserve the originality of the Z/28 as a Stocker.

It makes me wonder that all the advantages that a solid lifter engine had which got lost with the valve spring and hydraulic lifters rules. A hydraulic based engine didn't get an increase in HP and the solid lifter based engines didn't get a reduction in HP. The factory didn't make the true performance cars hydraulic lifter, they came as solid lifters with mandatory disk brakes.

So as hard as I work on my combo, power is given away by NHRA to the lower powered engine families. Give them the HP they should be rated like a solid lifter engine.

Casey Miles



Casey,
Nothing personal, but you're making several choices to render yourself less than competitive, and asking everyone else to accommodate you. And you're complaining about other combinations.


Time doesn't stand still for any of us, and progress doesn't stop for any of us, either.



Honestly, who has been racing an original Z-28 (and the most rare of them) longer than Dave and Ben? And they're pretty competitive. A small journal crank and rods aren't worth that much in ET. Brian Rogers goes fairly quick with a 69 Z-28, and there are few people more low buck than he is.



You're flat out saying "I CHOOSE not to be competitive" and then saying "I want HP added to the other guys" and finally "I want all of the class held back to let me keep up".


We ALL got the enhancements, whether we wanted them or not. And I've argued against several of them. I wouldn't complain if the rules were turned back about 30 years or so, actually.



I'm not even arguing for lower the indexes.



With all due respect, that ain't racing. Sorry if you're "taken back", but facts are facts.
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wondering what stock racers think

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I wouldn't complain if the rules were turned back about 30 years or so
Alan, I know what Casey's doing. And I can see both sides of this discussion. You're right, he's not competing, but at the same time you can't fault a man for having an emotional attachment to his car. He's doing the best that he can with what he's got.

Now about "if the rules were turned back about 30 years or so", the only rule that we need to turn back would be the valve spring rule. And we really don't need to go back to the original valve springs. I think that 160 on the seat for a conventional cam placement and 110 for an OHC would bring everything back to reality in a hurry. And I think that even the Millennial Tech guys could use a valve spring tester, quick and easy right after fuel check.
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