Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock

[ALMACK]

Interesting perspective by the author.

I have felt for some time that NHRA could make PS more realistic and bridge the gap between the current Pro Stock and Super Stock by:

* make the car bodies have the same dimensions as factory production cars.
* Super Stock legal tires.
* The engine would be based on the same architecture as production engines but the racers could poke and stroke them to a certain max cu.in.
* a Limit on supercharger specs ( larger of course than the current SS blowers)

Basically it would be an enhanced version of Super Stock very much like it was in 1970

[Mike Fuller]

Originally Posted by almack

interesting perspective by the author.

I have felt for some time that nhra could make ps more realistic and bridge the gap between the current pro stock and super stock by:

* make the car bodies have the same dimensions as factory production cars.
* super stock legal tires.
* the engine would be based on the same architecture as production engines but the racers could poke and stroke them to a certain max cu.in.
* a limit on supercharger specs ( larger of course than the current ss blowers)

basically it would be an enhanced version of super stock very much like it was in 1970

x2

[bubski]

the current crop of factory stock superstars aint gonna be to happy when all the guys with too much money get their final hosing from nhra and go spend whatever time and money it takes to pee in their pool

[Paradigm Shift]

Unfortunately, Mr. Asher presents a myopic view with regard to the current fan base associated with NHRA events.

There won't be twenty people that attend to watch Factory Stock when assigned a premier role at future events.

The relationship of vehicle make or model and attendee is fall less incumbent on a passion for performance automobiles and much more so a quest for an entertainment spectacle and the commensurate value proposition.

Easy to determine. Promote extensively and hold a Factory Stock event and see who turns out.

I'm not sure about the majority of Stock and Super Stock racers, but I'm certainly not going. I don't watch them now.

Only one sure way to make this form of racing exciting and fill seats to any reasonable level as it relates to Stock, Super Stock and Factory Stock - open the parimutuel window!

[House of Darts]

It is very interesting that this article is brought to the forefront in the S/SS section. Ever watch the stands at a divisional meet or national event when S/SS race? For the divisional which speaks with more clarity than a national event,. some wives and girl fiends, volunteer pit helpers an friends are the only ones in the stands.Do you see all the double stackers that show up for S/SS? Pretty crazy for the lousy payouts. A FS car ain't cheap. Do you think that the FS cars becoming Pro/FS will help the sportsman racer? Isn't racing supposed to be a show? Horse, bike and all the various permutations of all motors ports is about the fans coming out to see racers race.If you pull the FS and AH cars out, what does S/SS have to show? To work on your car and get it in the trailer, get to the event and spend 1-4 days at an event that doesn't draw enough spectators that out number the number of people in the pits is that death bell. Someone here, started to do something. Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars. The father stopped to talk to me and I could see his 9 year old son looking apprehensive at what was going on to the pits. I walked up to the boy and asked him if he wanted a close up look at my car. Before he knew what happened, he was in the car with the helmet on and his dad was taking pics. They kept coming back after each round just to talk. This class racing isn't going to last unless we as racers, promote the sport ourselves. Don't look to NHRA to do anything constructive. If a bunch of reckless street racers can gain national attention, what will it take to get sportsman racers to do the same thing(popularity)? Is NMCA the answer? Ground roots class racer wave? Save the sport. Racer independence. Patriotic?

[Paradigm Shift]

"I have felt for some time that NHRA could make PS more realistic and bridge the gap between the current Pro Stock and Super Stock by:

* make the car bodies have the same dimensions as factory production cars.
* Super Stock legal tires.
* The engine would be based on the same architecture as production engines but the racers could poke and stroke them to a certain max cu.in.
* a Limit on supercharger specs ( larger of course than the current SS blowers)

Basically it would be an enhanced version of Super Stock very much like it was in 1970"

Not a chance that any of these arcane suggestions would have a positive impact on either appeal or attendance.


There is virtually no one among the average NHRA fan base that would have any interest in, and in many cases, any knowledge of, the technical merits associated with these suggested limitations and the resultant competition parameters.


These intrinsic and esoteric proposals are certainly at odds with what is on display at each NHRA event. As routinely mentioned, look at the stands and realistically comprehend who attends events to watch these rules confined and clearly weaker performing eliminators.

Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars.

You have to get people there. The effort to create enthusiasm and interest must be created externally and then develop intrinsically.



Class racing will last. No one outside of racers cares anything about it nor have they for decades. The racers will continue to show up, entertain and enjoy themselves and spend a great deal of money that is certainly necessary for event operating costs. That is, unless the sanction can convince and consistently rely upon a group of 60-100 11.90 cars to attend and then Stock is over with.

[Stephen Bell]

Certianly all valid points.... Here are a few more things to think about:
The factory cars seem to have a little traction with the fans, manufacturers, and NHRA but the direction is uncertain. What is it that will make the direction clear? There needs to be several changes that will help. I would park all of the cars together, similar to how the the Copo's are parked at Indy. The performance is an issue. The cars need to run in the 7's@170. They can easily do this with reducing the weight to 3,400 lbs and allowing a 10.5 inch tire(I know there goes the stock class). The tire will easily fit under the wheel well of the second generation Copo's and CJ's. Selling a 7 second 170 mph factory production car should be the foundation of the marketing. These cars need to have their own class. Throwing the cars that don't qualify back into stock eliminator doesn't make anyone happy. They need to qualify separately, it's difficult to be the first ones down the track Thursday morning and set the field by noon, then wait until 3:00 Saturday to race first round. I would not change the body or engine rules at all. There are several back halved factory cars that have run in the 7.70/7.80 range that don't get much attention. The backhalved cars look more like race cars then factory cars. I bet that all parties involved come up with a plan that will work better than what exists. It will look something like pro mod, pro stock, pro stock bike, nitro Harley, factory cars, etc rotating a smaller 8-12 race schedule at different national events. As for "rich people" coming into the factory class and ruining it, I don't understand that? It's already plenty expensive and there are plenty of smart people involved. Think about the fact that Barton, Holbrook, Patterson/Elite, Stanfield and more are already involved! I hope the class becomes relevant and I will do everything I can to support it. Just my two cents.....

Happy July 4th!
S.Bell

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shift

Not a chance that any of these arcane suggestions would have a positive impact on either appeal or attendance.


There is virtually no one among the average NHRA fan base that would have any interest in, and in many cases, any knowledge of, the technical merits associated with these suggested limitations and the resultant competition parameters.


These intrinsic and esoteric proposals are certainly at odds with what is on display at each NHRA event. As routinely mentioned, look at the stands and realistically comprehend who attends events to watch these rules confined and clearly weaker performing eliminators.









You have to get people there. The effort to create enthusiasm and interest must be created externally and then develop intrinsically.



Class racing will last. No one outside of racers cares anything about it nor have they for decades. The racers will continue to show up, entertain and enjoy themselves and spend a great deal of money that is certainly necessary for event operating costs. That is, unless the sanction can convince and consistently rely upon a group of 60-100 11.90 cars to attend and then Stock is over with.

I can see by your writing that you are a well educated man. How about you decipher this post in PLAIN English so this dumb Azz hillbilly can understand what you are sharing with us ??

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shift

Not a chance that any of these arcane suggestions would have a positive impact on either appeal or attendance.

The idea that fans would neither recognize nor care about the difference between today's funny car-like Pro Stock bodies and something that looks like a showroom car is preposterous. It's one of the major gripes with NASCAR for *years*. Setting rules that create performance, parity, and wheelstands is hardly arcane. It's irrelevant if the "average" fan knows how or why the "resultant competition" is close and exciting. Additionally, it's NHRA's job to educate that fan base so that they *are* more knowledgeable about what they are watching, thus enjoying and appreciating it more.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by House of Darts

It is very interesting that this article is brought to the forefront in the S/SS section. Ever watch the stands at a divisional meet or national event when S/SS race? For the divisional which speaks with more clarity than a national event,. some wives and girl fiends, volunteer pit helpers an friends are the only ones in the stands.Do you see all the double stackers that show up for S/SS? Pretty crazy for the lousy payouts. A FS car ain't cheap. Do you think that the FS cars becoming Pro/FS will help the sportsman racer? Isn't racing supposed to be a show? Horse, bike and all the various permutations of all motors ports is about the fans coming out to see racers race.If you pull the FS and AH cars out, what does S/SS have to show? To work on your car and get it in the trailer, get to the event and spend 1-4 days at an event that doesn't draw enough spectators that out number the number of people in the pits is that death bell. Someone here, started to do something. Not sure if it was Jack Matyas, got a bunch of teens to show up at the track and they got to see the cars up front and got a T-shirt and more personal face time with racers that they would at a National event with the pro's. That's action. I watched when a dad, grandfather and son stopped by in the pits to look at the cars. The father stopped to talk to me and I could see his 9 year old son looking apprehensive at what was going on to the pits. I walked up to the boy and asked him if he wanted a close up look at my car. Before he knew what happened, he was in the car with the helmet on and his dad was taking pics. They kept coming back after each round just to talk. This class racing isn't going to last unless we as racers, promote the sport ourselves. Don't look to NHRA to do anything constructive. If a bunch of reckless street racers can gain national attention, what will it take to get sportsman racers to do the same thing(popularity)? Is NMCA the answer? Ground roots class racer wave? Save the sport. Racer independence. Patriotic?

Good perspective. While it may not be THE answer, it certainly can add life to Stock/SS. It is basically what John Force did when he got started. Not only did he promote himself, but Funny Car racing got a real shot in the arm. Many racers need to get over their grumpy, introverted, negative, selfish, self-righteous limitations and promote their own stuff.