Bracket Racing vs Stock/Super Stock Racing

[Jim Caughlin]

Yo Steve1118, if you think that racing an 'offbeat' 4 cylinder Super Stocker is easy or cheap, come on over and tell me how it's done. Apparently I'm not as smart as you.

Jim Caughlin
SS/ES 6019

[Steve1118]

Originally Posted by Jim Caughlin

Yo Steve1118, if you think that racing an 'offbeat' 4 cylinder Super Stocker is easy or cheap, come on over and tell me how it's done. Apparently I'm not as smart as you.

Jim Caughlin
SS/ES 6019

Oh, you're probably smarter than this old man, after all, you one of the prima donna class guy and all of you are the smartest and most victimized in all of racing. And, you no doubt spend a lot more money than I do. I guarantee you do, and have no doubt you can sink $5K in 'trick' cylinder heads, or $5K in trans/converter combo. How impressive. And, no doubt you've got a stacker, and a motor home, or at least a new one ton dually with a fully loaded trailer. And, you have no problem spending $1500 and taking off work to attend a National event that will pay you what, $2K maybe, if you outlast 80 other guys? But, you've made my point for me, thank you. It's not an entry level eliminator anymore. The brackets you guys all disdain are. For every one of you there is 500 bracket guys, and most of them are the best drivers in the sport. They race a lot, and every car can run the number. And, no, I'm not one of them, but I don't begrudge a few of them showcasing their talents at a National event. If NHRA sees fit to give the winner a Wally, who cares? It's their call. I'm an old geezer who has found new life racing obsolete stuff in Nostalgia Super Stock, and I like it. I have fun, I don't spend a lot, and I change oil, dump gas in it, and set the valves when I'm bored. Done enough of working my butt off in the past 50 years. Don't feel the least bit guilty for it. Enjoy yourself being exhausted and broke.

[Ted Barnes]

Well this is entertaining...

[Mike Schwartz]

At the Summernationals, SS & STK had a combined total of 138 runs in eliminations (including byes and singles). Of those, only 3 (2.2%) were heads up. Additionally, none of the finalists or semi-finalists had to face heads-up runs on the day.

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

At the Summernationals, SS & STK had a combined total of 138 runs in eliminations (including byes and singles). Of those, only 3 (2.2%) were heads up. Additionally, none of the finalists or semi-finalists had to face heads-up runs on the day.

And your point is? If the quota was higher there could be more heads up races. The low quota is not helping this situation. Stock and SS are handicap classes so this is the norm. I have been racing Super Stock for about 35 years and other than a dial in it is nothing like bracket racing. We choose to do this and enjoy the rules and comraderie among our competitors. It's not for everyone. The vast majority of the class racers would like the quotas raised to a level they were before the current NHRA management took power. The added classes with the factory race cars has lessened the chance for heads up match ups. Super Stock has over 100 classes and Stock has near that so you could have a national event with out any duplicate classes. This probably won't happen because there are classes that are more popular than others. I happen to race in one of the more popular SS classes. We have had as many as 7 cars in my class at a points race recently

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

And your point is? If the quota was higher there could be more heads up races. The low quota is not helping this situation. Stock and SS are handicap classes so this is the norm. I have been racing Super Stock for about 35 years and other than a dial in it is nothing like bracket racing. We choose to do this and enjoy the rules and comraderie among our competitors. It's not for everyone. The vast majority of the class racers would like the quotas raised to a level they were before the current NHRA management took power. The added classes with the factory race cars has lessened the chance for heads up match ups. Super Stock has over 100 classes and Stock has near that so you could have a national event with out any duplicate classes. This probably won't happen because there are classes that are more popular than others. I happen to race in one of the more popular SS classes. We have had as many as 7 cars in my class at a points race recently

I looked at an National event with 128-car fields and (154-169 total entries), the 2016 US Nationals. Again, I used the results published in DRC.

In SS & Stk combined, there were 254 rounds of eliminations.
Of those, only 6 were heads up (2.4%). [ FS/XX x2, H/SA x2, FS/H, B/SA - none in SS]
And once again, none of the finalists or semifinalists had to face a heads-up run in eliminations.
Comparing the biggest event, and the most recent event, the results are almost identical regardless of the size of the quotas: that there is less than a 3 out of 100 chance that any match in eliminations will be heads-up.

There is nothing wrong with treating SS & Stock as performance-based categories, but my point is that performance only goes so far once eliminations start. Its is statistically more important that a driver's 'Bracket Racing' skills are top-notch. A few heads-up races aside, dialing-in accurately, cutting good lights and working the finish line are the predominate key to winning events under the current system.

[James Perrone]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

At the Summernationals, SS & STK had a combined total of 138 runs in eliminations (including byes and singles). Of those, only 3 (2.2%) were heads up. Additionally, none of the finalists or semi-finalists had to face heads-up runs on the day.

I had heads up 2nd rd. Class Racing not for the bracket racer.

[joespanova]

I have a friend who I've done a few engines for , that cannot understand WHY anyone would spend 50 , 75 or a hundred thou plus and run slower than his bracket dragster........but for those people , who are often not really car guys..........just want to go fast , period. Very little challenge to build a 4 sec. dragster. Many guys like this. There are bracket racers who are sharp engine guys......but they are in the minority.

[Coleydog]

"and other than a dial in it is nothing like bracket racing."

I would like a better understanding of what you mean by this. If you run someone in your class it's heads up, the rest is a bracket race where you compete against yourself. You can have a tough nut or an easy mark in the other lane to determine how much window you have. But it's on you, that's the beauty of " bracket racing" not how big your wallet is, as in headsup racing.
The truth of the matter is, if class racing can't fill the stands, NHRA will put out there whatever it takes. Face it "we" like our cars of that period (60-80s) but today's spectators can't relate to them. How about going back to running off the record and not indexs, and no break outs, anything to make it more exciting to people other than us.
Hopefully maybe another month and I'll be done with my car and try my hand in this. I can do well in the bracket part but probably will be handed my head in heads up. LOL Not trying to offend anyone, but just my opinion, the beauty of America.
Mike