Lifter rule in Stock - Page 3

Alan Nyhus · 12-08-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

Here we go. Why do the hyd cam combos get an "up grade" and not the solid cam combinations?? IF ( I am not advocating for this) everyone had been up graded to rollers would that not have leveled the playing field? Am I missing something here? Are not the lifter concerns "wiping out a motor" shared with solid and hyd cams?

Hi Phil.

In a way, a hydraulic cam switched to solids actually loses lift when checked the NHRA way. Since the NHRA checking clearance is .000 (zero), a solid cam loses the lift from the lash when it's running.

A hydraulic lifter is theoretically always at .000 (zero) when it's running.

Kenny Wigington · 12-08-2016, 10:44 AM

So in a sense, all the folks using a hyd lifter, as they were supposed to, can change to solid lifter grind, at the same specs, and gain, what maybe 25 to 30 hp ? Is that idea still correct ?

Im only out of class racing, for a little while...

Grey Ghost · 12-08-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Nyhus

Hi Phil.

In a way, a hydraulic cam switched to solids actually loses lift when checked the NHRA way. Since the NHRA checking clearance is .000 (zero), a solid cam loses the lift from the lash when it's running.

A hydraulic lifter is theoretically always at .000 (zero) when it's running.

Good Morning Al.

I understand that. Why the rule change then? Higher RPM capability?

Alan Nyhus · 12-08-2016, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

Good Morning Al.

I understand that. Why the rule change then? Higher RPM capability?

One less thing for Tech to check, would be my guess?

ron mattson · 12-08-2016, 01:39 PM

My guess would be for ease of tech, the performance
Will change very little , not gonna turn a 6500
Rpm engine into a 8500 or gain a bunch of power.
I would think at very best .03-.05 the current generation
Of limited travel "hydraulic" lifters are solids already!
Just my .02$$ lol!!!!

Bob Bender · 12-08-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron mattson

My guess would be for ease of tech, the performance
Will change very little , not gonna turn a 6500
Rpm engine into a 8500 or gain a bunch of power.
I would think at very best .03-.05 the current generation
Of limited travel "hydraulic" lifters are solids already!
Just my .02$$ lol!!!!

x2

Coleydog · 12-08-2016, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

Here we go. Why do the hyd cam combos get an "up grade" and not the solid cam combinations?? IF ( I am not advocating for this) everyone had been up graded to rollers would that not have leveled the playing field? Am I missing something here? Are not the lifter concerns "wiping out a motor" shared with solid and hyd cams?

Seems like a lot of concern about someone getting an edge by using solids making them faster. If they run heads up, maybe, other than that it's a bracket race. Take away the heads up, run on your number, problem solved with Daddy WarBucks mega dollar engine getting a free ride.

Mike Keener · 12-08-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

Here we go. Why do the hyd cam combos get an "up grade" and not the solid cam combinations?? IF ( I am not advocating for this) everyone had been up graded to rollers would that not have leveled the playing field? Am I missing something here? Are not the lifter concerns "wiping out a motor" shared with solid and hyd cams?

Great question!

Dwight Southerland · 12-08-2016, 04:04 PM

I seriously doubt if there is much advantage for people who are maxed out on camshaft technology on their hydraulic lifters. The ramp profiles on those cams are taking assuming that after .015" lifter rise, the lifters are solid anyway. You might be able to speed up the first 6-10 degrees of the ramp a bit with a solid lifter and drop it a bit quicker. One thing for sure, there will be a lot of camshafts sold next year!

Bob Mulry · 12-08-2016, 06:25 PM

Hi,

I don't see a performance improvement with solid flat tappet lifters to replace hydraulic flat tappet lifters.............

A solid lifter would still have to modified to work with the spring pressures that a run now.....

The ramps are so fast that they almost hit the edge of the lifter now.....

If you ran tool steel, shoeboxes or whatever hydraulic lifters you would still need the same type of treatment or design to make it live......

The main advantages that I can see are a lower price for solids over hydraulics and if you wished, an EDM hole could be used for addition oil supply....

That said.............

How about allowing the front battery in stock to be relocated to the trunk so that you haven't a hot battery lead that is 12' long going from the battery disconnect to the front battery. Even with the disconnect off the 12' long battery cable that is capable of carrying more than 500 amps straight to ground if the cable is damaged is hot...If something bad happened and the fuel system were damaged and leaking the battery and cable are still in the engine compartment and hot..........

Just my thoughts because it would make the cars safer, easier to wire and lighter....

Thanks,
Bob

12-08-2016, 10:44 AM	#2
Kenny Wigington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Cumming,Ga. USA Posts: 967 Likes: 36 Liked 60 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Lifter rule in Stock So in a sense, all the folks using a hyd lifter, as they were supposed to, can change to solid lifter grind, at the same specs, and gain, what maybe 25 to 30 hp ? Is that idea still correct ? Im only out of class racing, for a little while... __________________ 2894 STK

12-08-2016, 01:39 PM	#5
ron mattson Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: cloquet mn Posts: 468 Likes: 17 Liked 69 Times in 32 Posts	Re: Lifter rule in Stock My guess would be for ease of tech, the performance Will change very little , not gonna turn a 6500 Rpm engine into a 8500 or gain a bunch of power. I would think at very best .03-.05 the current generation Of limited travel "hydraulic" lifters are solids already! Just my .02$$ lol!!!! __________________ Ron Mattson 5015 STK

12-08-2016, 04:04 PM	#9
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 2,002 Likes: 64 Liked 783 Times in 195 Posts	Re: Lifter rule in Stock I seriously doubt if there is much advantage for people who are maxed out on camshaft technology on their hydraulic lifters. The ramp profiles on those cams are taking assuming that after .015" lifter rise, the lifters are solid anyway. You might be able to speed up the first 6-10 degrees of the ramp a bit with a solid lifter and drop it a bit quicker. One thing for sure, there will be a lot of camshafts sold next year! __________________

12-08-2016, 06:25 PM	#10
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	Re: Lifter rule in Stock Hi, I don't see a performance improvement with solid flat tappet lifters to replace hydraulic flat tappet lifters............. A solid lifter would still have to modified to work with the spring pressures that a run now..... The ramps are so fast that they almost hit the edge of the lifter now..... If you ran tool steel, shoeboxes or whatever hydraulic lifters you would still need the same type of treatment or design to make it live...... The main advantages that I can see are a lower price for solids over hydraulics and if you wished, an EDM hole could be used for addition oil supply.... That said............. How about allowing the front battery in stock to be relocated to the trunk so that you haven't a hot battery lead that is 12' long going from the battery disconnect to the front battery. Even with the disconnect off the 12' long battery cable that is capable of carrying more than 500 amps straight to ground if the cable is damaged is hot...If something bad happened and the fuel system were damaged and leaking the battery and cable are still in the engine compartment and hot.......... Just my thoughts because it would make the cars safer, easier to wire and lighter.... Thanks, Bob __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports Last edited by Bob Mulry; 12-08-2016 at 07:30 PM.