Super Stock Weight Breaks

[JRyan]

Wow,

I knew we should have bought that car when you had it for sale. That's a lightweight piece for one of those cars. Our BOSS 351 (D/S) weighs 3550 with 1/2 tank of gas (stock tank) and 75 lbs. of ballast with a 200 lb. driver. It was 2005 lbs. on the front, and 1545 lbs. on the rear. Of course it still has the heater in it and hasn't been stripped at all (even though it's been a Stocker since 1977), but that's still 200 lbs. lighter than ours empty. We don't want to mess with ours, as we plan to restore it at some point.

As far as the weight goes, you can either add enough to go a class lower than the natural class (SS/IA in your case), or remove enough to make it one class higher than the natural class. How you attach the ballast is what NHRA is looking at if you go down a class. It looks as though you could easily run SS/IA with the 280/305 combo in your car.

Jerry

Originally Posted by JRyan

Wow,

I knew we should have bought that car when you had it for sale. That's a lightweight piece for one of those cars. Our BOSS 351 (D/S) weighs 3550 with 1/2 tank of gas (stock tank) and 75 lbs. of ballast with a 200 lb. driver. It was 2005 lbs. on the front, and 1545 lbs. on the rear. Of course it still has the heater in it and hasn't been stripped at all (even though it's been a Stocker since 1977), but that's still 200 lbs. lighter than ours empty. We don't want to mess with ours, as we plan to restore it at some point.

As far as the weight goes, you can either add enough to go a class lower than the natural class (SS/IA in your case), or remove enough to make it one class higher than the natural class. How you attach the ballast is what NHRA is looking at if you go down a class. It looks as though you could easily run SS/IA with the 280/305 combo in your car.

Jerry

Jerry,

Check your private messages.

Terrance

[Bill Harris]

Terrance,

My car is a SCJ which is the 375 HP with ram air combination. It uses the Holley 780 and solid lifter cam. The 370 HP combo is the Q-Jet with a hydraulic cam. NHRA took HP off the SCJ combo a few years ago and it is now factored at 360 for stock and 371 for S/S. This latest NHRA adjustment for S/S only applied to the CJ which was still at 380 for S/S. Now the SCJ and CJ are both at 360 for Stock and 371 for S/S. In S/S the difference between the two engines boils down to the carburator. I don't know why anyone would run a Q-jet when a 780 Holley could be used without any penality.

The HP penality for having ram-air was taken off a while ago so now ram-air and non-ram-air all have the same factored HP.

I have given serious consideration to doing a '71 429SCJ Mustang in S/S, but have pretty much given up the idea. I couldn't use my car since it is an original J code SCJ/4-speed/Drag-Pack car and I would be crazy to tub it. The NHRA isn't going to take any more HP off the S/S factor until someone runs the combination, and at 371 I think it is too high to be compe***ive in class. Since no one has been running the engine in S/S there is a ton of development work that needs to be done on the heads and I don't want to be the guinea pig. I know there is one person working on the engine for use in SS/GT. It will be interesting to see how it comes out when he gets it on the track. If there was an aluminum head approved for it, like the Edelbrock or the original A-429 Ford Motorsport head, it would be a LOT more attractive.

I'll be in Bradenton and Gainesville in February. Stop by if you are at the track.

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

Terrance,

My car is a SCJ which is the 375 HP with ram air combination. It uses the Holley 780 and solid lifter cam. The 370 HP combo is the Q-Jet with a hydraulic cam. NHRA took HP off the SCJ combo a few years ago and it is now factored at 360 for stock and 371 for S/S. This latest NHRA adjustment for S/S only applied to the CJ which was still at 380 for S/S. Now the SCJ and CJ are both at 360 for Stock and 371 for S/S. In S/S the difference between the two engines boils down to the carburator. I don't know why anyone would run a Q-jet when a 780 Holley could be used without any penality.

The HP penality for having ram-air was taken off a while ago so now ram-air and non-ram-air all have the same factored HP.

I have given serious consideration to doing a '71 429SCJ Mustang in S/S, but have pretty much given up the idea. I couldn't use my car since it is an original J code SCJ/4-speed/Drag-Pack car and I would be crazy to tub it. The NHRA isn't going to take any more HP off the S/S factor until someone runs the combination, and at 371 I think it is too high to be compe***ive in class. Since no one has been running the engine in S/S there is a ton of development work that needs to be done on the heads and I don't want to be the guinea pig. I know there is one person working on the engine for use in SS/GT. It will be interesting to see how it comes out when he gets it on the track. If there was an aluminum head approved for it, like the Edelbrock or the original A-429 Ford Motorsport head, it would be a LOT more attractive.

I'll be in Bradenton and Gainesville in February. Stop by if you are at the track.

I will be sure to do that, I would really like to have my engine ready by Bradenton but I don't think I will have it. My car is an original 4 speed Mach 1 car, it came off the assembly line in New Jersey in late 1970. Some where along the way it was converted to a ram air car which I am told those parts are very hard to come buy. I can definently agree w***h you not wanting to tub it especially being a 429 drag pack car. Looking forward to seeing you down this way in a few months.

Terrance

[John Lang]

You gentelmen have helped a bunch of people with there S/S cars, Maybe you can help me ? I've got a SS/CA 65 Dodge Coronet which is a 7.00 # X 500hp= 3500# + 170 = 3670 for SS/CA. Well my question that i've asked other racers, is to go to SS/GT, using a 70 Cuda 440-6Pak in my 65 Coronet. The 440 is rated at 390 factory, and 405 NHRA in SS. I just can't afford the Hemi.The 440 would cost about 1/3 the price of the Hemi! What G/T class would my tank fit in ? Thanks in advance John Lang # 365 SS/CA

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by John Lang

You gentelmen have helped a bunch of people with there S/S cars, Maybe you can help me ? I've got a SS/CA 65 Dodge Coronet which is a 7.00 # X 500hp= 3500# + 170 = 3670 for SS/CA. Well my question that i've asked other racers, is to go to SS/GT, using a 70 Cuda 440-6Pak in my 65 Coronet. The 440 is rated at 390 factory, and 405 NHRA in SS. I just can't afford the Hemi.The 440 would cost about 1/3 the price of the Hemi! What G/T class would my tank fit in ? Thanks in advance John Lang # 365 SS/CA

To further the question, do you calculate the shipping weight of the car at the original HP or the updated/refined HP to calculate for a GT class? My 1970 AMX with a 390/325/315 falls at 9.92 or 11.15 with a 360/290/280 (only two engines available in 1970). NHRA doesn't list car's by shipping weight. Do you take 9.92 x 325 or 315 and no allowance for driver weight? Or do you use 11.15?
I'm assuming John Lang will need the formula for his 1965 Coonet also.

[Bill Harris]

Ahhh... but NHRA does indeed list shipping weights in the classification guides. When you open the guide the page you are looking at has a white background and gives FACTORED HP to shipping weight calculations. If you pan to the right, the table is repeated for each engine/body style but this time listing the shipping weights and the background is grey. So for the '70 AMX the shipping weight is 3123 for the 360/290/280 and 3126 for the 390/325/315. You can calculate backwards from there and get the weight break listed in the left side table. The numbers in the HP/weight table are always done using the factored HP.

The rules for the GT classes is that for a body style that has multiple engines, you are supposed to use the shipping weight for the car "with the heaviest gasoline engine and appropriate transmission". So for John's Coronet, assuming it is a 2 door sedan, the heaviest engine, and therefore the heaviest shipping weight, is 3550 lbs. If you plug that shipping weight and the 405 HP for the 440 SixPak into my spreadsheet it looks like this: