NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind - Page 2

Tom Turner · 12-12-2007, 10:46 PM

Bob Shaw is right; wait a little bit before jumping onto the "any valve job" wagon. The word on the street is that clarification will happen before Christmas.

Adger Smith · 12-13-2007, 01:57 AM

I just wonder how many guys out in Drag Race land are in the same boat I'm in... Last fall I spent a weekend doing a flog on my flow bench & head machine. You know the drill.. spent about 40 hours in one week end. I was working on valve angles for a, then, legal valve job. On Monday morning I ordered 2 cutters from Sunnen for my VGS 20 machine with the latest greatest angles on them. That totaled almost $200. If I had known about the new rule I could have worked on something that was productive instead of just practicing all weekend & helping Sunnen's bottom line on Monday. I'm a little pissed about this latest enhancement of the rules. Not the change, the way it was kept in Glendora, Or those outside The ivory towers didn't mention it. As time passes I think there will be more & more changes, like any big business, as people try to justify their positions. I'm just about ready for a period of 5 years racing without any changes in any rules.
I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

greg fulk · 12-13-2007, 03:11 AM

# 1 DON'T KILL ME! but....this is my take on it.......we..as in stock racers BITCH & want rules inforced! That being said with this rule change it make it easier to "inforce"! you have one angle to check & if it's good......"your good" !

Michael Beard · 12-13-2007, 08:50 AM

If they didn't allow superceded parts or change 'little' rules here and there, cars would've (or should have) hit a performance wall years ago, and guys would have lost interest. If it weren't for the changes over the years, you think they might've had the horsepower rating figured out for a late '60s smallblock by now? LOL

njk53 · 12-13-2007, 09:52 AM

I agree with Greg, valve angle and valve seat angle are two different items. So, I am interpreting any valve job as a multiple angle cut on the seat not just a 3 angle cut.

Steve Hagberg · 12-14-2007, 03:07 PM

OK. Having just seen the new diagram for a legal stock valve job (that was omitted from the 2008 rule book), on page 126 of the Dec. 14 issue of ND, it appears that 'any valve job' really means the following: First, there is no indication that the number of angles has changed, still just three. Second, The part about the maximum bottom cut angle being limited to 70 degrees has been omitted. Third, an additional comment was added to the distance below the top of the seat angle being limited to .250" to stipulate that it can extend further if 'OEM'. So that's it. Looks like another classic case of a poor technical description in the rule book. If this interpretation isn't correct, then NHRA Tech is in worse shape than I thought.

Greg Hill · 12-14-2007, 07:13 PM

The ruleboolk says any valve job allowed.

Greg

Bob Pagano · 12-14-2007, 08:33 PM

Yes Greg it does say that... But 17 lines above where it says any valve job it says: must retain stock head & stem diameters & stock seat angle.
Looks to me it allows more room below the seat for multi angles or what ever... & it says nothing about what goes on above the seat. No more restrictions about top angles @ +.250 bigger than the valve head diameter. No more picture in section 1:2 of the engine section of the General regs....
It looks to me like I can now do some very nice work above the stock seat, into the chamber, & .250 below the stock seat angle.
Hummmm.. the mind is in overdrive. Just because the rule says I have to put the stock seat angle on the valve.... does it have to touch the stock seat angle in the head?

Adger Smith
on Bobs sign in

div 5 · 12-14-2007, 11:41 PM

Got the 48th edition of ND today and it has the picture that is missing from the 2008 rulebook. The way I read it the .250 measurement is taken from bottom of the seat cut but the picture shows it taken from the top. I'm following Bob's advice and waiting before I start my next set of heads.

ss wannabee · 12-15-2007, 10:41 AM

I agree with Adger......too many rules changes including major ones like this one in too short a period of time. But I guess it goes with the territory this fast-paced world we're in....Internet and all.......One has to wonder though if the entire national NHRA tech staff is being versed as well on these changes. I say leave the rules changes alone and LET'S JUST RACE!

12-12-2007, 10:46 PM	#11
Tom Turner Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Lake Tapps, Washington Posts: 137 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind Bob Shaw is right; wait a little bit before jumping onto the "any valve job" wagon. The word on the street is that clarification will happen before Christmas.

12-13-2007, 01:57 AM	#12
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind I just wonder how many guys out in Drag Race land are in the same boat I'm in... Last fall I spent a weekend doing a flog on my flow bench & head machine. You know the drill.. spent about 40 hours in one week end. I was working on valve angles for a, then, legal valve job. On Monday morning I ordered 2 cutters from Sunnen for my VGS 20 machine with the latest greatest angles on them. That totaled almost $200. If I had known about the new rule I could have worked on something that was productive instead of just practicing all weekend & helping Sunnen's bottom line on Monday. I'm a little pissed about this latest enhancement of the rules. Not the change, the way it was kept in Glendora, Or those outside The ivory towers didn't mention it. As time passes I think there will be more & more changes, like any big business, as people try to justify their positions. I'm just about ready for a period of 5 years racing without any changes in any rules. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

12-13-2007, 03:11 AM	#13
greg fulk VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: jackson Posts: 1,165 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind # 1 DON'T KILL ME! but....this is my take on it.......we..as in stock racers BITCH & want rules inforced! That being said with this rule change it make it easier to "inforce"! you have one angle to check & if it's good......"your good" ! __________________ Greg Fulk 308 308X P/SA "ALL AMERICAN"

12-13-2007, 08:50 AM	#14
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind If they didn't allow superceded parts or change 'little' rules here and there, cars would've (or should have) hit a performance wall years ago, and guys would have lost interest. If it weren't for the changes over the years, you think they might've had the horsepower rating figured out for a late '60s smallblock by now? LOL __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

12-13-2007, 09:52 AM	#15
njk53 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: East China, MI Posts: 504 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind I agree with Greg, valve angle and valve seat angle are two different items. So, I am interpreting any valve job as a multiple angle cut on the seat not just a 3 angle cut.

12-14-2007, 03:07 PM	#16
Steve Hagberg Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 38 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind OK. Having just seen the new diagram for a legal stock valve job (that was omitted from the 2008 rule book), on page 126 of the Dec. 14 issue of ND, it appears that 'any valve job' really means the following: First, there is no indication that the number of angles has changed, still just three. Second, The part about the maximum bottom cut angle being limited to 70 degrees has been omitted. Third, an additional comment was added to the distance below the top of the seat angle being limited to .250" to stipulate that it can extend further if 'OEM'. So that's it. Looks like another classic case of a poor technical description in the rule book. If this interpretation isn't correct, then NHRA Tech is in worse shape than I thought.

12-14-2007, 07:13 PM	#17
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind The ruleboolk says any valve job allowed. Greg

12-14-2007, 08:33 PM	#18
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 242 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind Yes Greg it does say that... But 17 lines above where it says any valve job it says: must retain stock head & stem diameters & stock seat angle. Looks to me it allows more room below the seat for multi angles or what ever... & it says nothing about what goes on above the seat. No more restrictions about top angles @ +.250 bigger than the valve head diameter. No more picture in section 1:2 of the engine section of the General regs.... It looks to me like I can now do some very nice work above the stock seat, into the chamber, & .250 below the stock seat angle. Hummmm.. the mind is in overdrive. Just because the rule says I have to put the stock seat angle on the valve.... does it have to touch the stock seat angle in the head? Adger Smith on Bobs sign in __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

12-14-2007, 11:41 PM	#19
div 5 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind Got the 48th edition of ND today and it has the picture that is missing from the 2008 rulebook. The way I read it the .250 measurement is taken from bottom of the seat cut but the picture shows it taken from the top. I'm following Bob's advice and waiting before I start my next set of heads.

12-15-2007, 10:41 AM	#20
ss wannabee Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 663 Likes: 0 Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: NHRA Rule Change for Valve Grind I agree with Adger......too many rules changes including major ones like this one in too short a period of time. But I guess it goes with the territory this fast-paced world we're in....Internet and all.......One has to wonder though if the entire national NHRA tech staff is being versed as well on these changes. I say leave the rules changes alone and LET'S JUST RACE!