Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Danny Ashley

So what year firebird/engine combo are you wanting to build? Stock or Super Stock?

No decisions made. This thread is to explore possible combos, that might possibly be built to run the index or just slightly under, on a small budget, if such is possible. I think ya'll call 'em "dime rockets" ?

I have a '74 Ventura 2 bracket car now. It has a mild, iron head 455, TH400, 4.10 gears. Runs 7.30's 1/8 mile, footbrakin . But Bill Rink and another record holder got the hp factor up too high to use the '74 GTO body.

I also have a '68 bracket Bird under construction. It has a mild 455 with 6x heads, TH400, 9" converter, and 4.56 gears. Should run about a 7 flat 1/8 mile. I assume that would be a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile ET.

Now this motor would not be legal in a '68 Bird, except in GT/SS. But, a similar engine would work in '71-'76 Birds and A-bodies. To run the Bird in Stock, I'd need a 330hp 400. But Brent has already done a thread on his build with that combo. And I think the hp factor is too high on the 350HO in that model.

[Dwight Southerland]

Have you considered the Ventura 350?

[Jim Hanig]

Listen to Mr Southerland, You need to get the best stuff you can.The cheap wont be cheap in the long run.

[Alan Nyhus]

Geez....if you've got a 74 Ventura that you're already racing, you're halfway there. Make sure and use Dwight's classification guide for any easy way to look at combos and engine specs. -Al

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Default.aspx

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Have you considered the Ventura 350?

Yes, the 350 was the only Pontiac V8 available in the Ventura, including the '74 GTO. But after Bill Rink ran so quick with it, NHRA hit it with big hp refactor. It's up to 277hp now. He switched over to SS with the car and has done quite well with it.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2088

Basically the same engine is only 250hp in '77. That engine has been raced quite successfully.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=763

[Alan Nyhus]

The '68 350HO 320 hp @ 305 factored hp (6/30/08) isn't totally out of line. Pretty stout little motor...good camshaft, darn near 12:1 compression ratio (at max. bore), etc.

The other thing to think about on the Ventura is that the hp factor occurred 11/10/2005. Lacking a bunch of cars running this combo, it seems a review of that factor would be in order by NHRA.

FWIW. -Al

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Alan Nyhus

The '68 350HO 320 hp @ 305 factored hp (6/30/08) isn't totally out of line. Pretty stout little motor...good camshaft, darn near 12:1 compression ratio (at max. bore), etc.

The other thing to think about on the Ventura is that the hp factor occurred 11/10/2005. Lacking a bunch of cars running this combo, it seems a review of that factor would be in order by NHRA.

FWIW. -Al

Yeah, I thought about the 350HO. But at 305, the '75 455 is 5hp less and the '76 is only 5hp more. And the 455's have so much more low end torque. Also, the little 350 will have to turn up some high rpm to run the number. That means a crazy cam and high spring pressures.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2008

The 455 on the other hand, will max out at no more than 6000rpm. That means you can get by with a reasonable cam, spring pressures and normal lifters. That alone will make the 455 cheaper to build and maintain. We had several 455's that ran mid 12's for hundreds of passes, without changing cams, springs or lifters. And they were running a TH400 tranny, stock 13" converter and 3.55 gears. So I would feel a lot more confident about the possibility of reaching the goal, for a reasonable price, if using a 455.

From what I have learned so far, from this site, it looks as if the higher the rpm you must turn, the more the engine will cost to build and maintain.

[Mark Yacavone]

Okay, I remember the article, and your driver...somewhat...but what is or was her full name, and yours?

Oh ,and let's get this out of the way right now:

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Okay, I remember the article, and your driver...somewhat...but what is or was her full name, and yours?

Oh ,and let's get this out of the way right now:

OK, I think I can explain all this. My name is Don Hurst. They named a shifter after me.

My wife goes by her initials, which are T & J. She doesn't like her real name that much, so everybody has just called her TJ now for about 40 years. She just said "But I'm not really that old."

Now, about Freddie: Back in the old days, most people named their car. So TJ named her car "Easy Lovin". She designed all the numbers and lettering herself, and cut them out of Mylar decal material. That name came from the Freddie Hart song by the same name. It was one of her favorite songs back then. In fact, it was a lot of people's favorite song. If the online info is correct, the song won top country song of the year in both 1971 and 1972. It was #1 on the country charts for 3 weeks, even reached as high as #17 on the Billboard chart.

And as you can imagine, it got a lot of air time on the radio, on both pop and country stations. TJ just said she even remembers it being played over the PA system at some of the tracks where we raced.

So, when people saw that name on her car, they all could relate it to that song.

[oldskool]

Again, the main reason for exploring the '76 455 possibilities, is because I already have a running 455 with 6x heads, in my '68 bracket Bird. I can get it running good in the bird and see if it has the potential to run the index in a heavier '76 body.

At 3664lbs, the TA is the lightest body I could run. That's an 11.82 weight break. If I understand the rules correctly, you can add weight to make the next lower class, or take out weight to fit the class better. So, to fit the 11.50 weight break perfectly, that would be 11.5 x 310 = 3565lbs.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2107

That would run H/SA, which has a 12.15 index. Some of you guys who know how to figure all this, please check my calculations and see if I am correct.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

I think my 455 will run at least mid 11's in the '68 Bird. I haven't weighed it, but it should weight just over 3000lbs. So, if I put it in a '76 Bird which weighs 3565, that should slow it down by about .57 sec. So, if the motor runs an 11.50 in the 3000lb Bird, then it should run between 12.00 and 12.10 in the heavier '76 TA, with the same trans, converter and rear gears.

Now I'm not use to figuring out all this stuff. We just ran a '68 Bird at 3300lbs with a 330 hp engine and it came up exactly 10.00. So some of you guys who know how to figure all this out, please check my calculations and see if I'm anywhere in the ball park. Thanks !