National Records

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN

Seldom Tear Down after a race is completed......everyone wants to go home. Random tear downs after Qualification Runs

No teardowns in our Division (7) unless a record has been set.

Hey THANKS guys ! Ya'll have provided a lot of great info.

I'm real surprised at the info in this post. I just assumed that the winner of every national and divisional would be torn down. Does that mean that only record setting cars are even checked at divisional races ? Does that mean that some of the cars could be running too many cubes and it would never even be checked ?

If this is the case, do ya'll think it's because of the bracket racing nature of class racing now ? Or maybe because the payouts are so low ? Or maybe a combination of things ?

The only negative I can see about somebody running an illegal engine is in the case of a same class, heads up run. In that case it wouldn't seem fair to the other guy IF he is running legal.

Having been around some dirt racing, I know how some guys will fudge all they can get by with.

So, nowadays, is it just assumed that most everybody who runs just the divisional races are fudging a little and most don't really care that much ?

Hey, I'm just trying to learn all I can about how things operate in class racing today. And I can't think of a better way to learn than to ask those who do it. So, thanks again guys for sharing all this info !

[oldskool]

Those 1986 records are interesting. The SS/KA is a 10.80. In 1977 the guys at H-O Racing Specialties set that class record at 11.31, in a '74 SD455 TA. So it took 9 years to lower the record 1/2 sec. We saw the H-O car run at the '78 Cajun Nationals. They were a long way from home.

[Dan Fahey]

What rule changes created the vast improvement?
Todays Stockers are running the old SS numbers.
D

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

What rule changes created the vast improvement?
Todays Stockers are running the old SS numbers.
D

I'll take a shot at that one. We ran a '68 Firebird in E/SA back in '75. We had to run factory cast pistons and rods. That limited the rpm. Now they can run forged H-beam rods and Ross pistons.

We had to run the stock type fan that came on that engine. Today I think they can run an electric driven water pump and elec fan.

We ran a much smaller Lunati "Stocker" cam and a 3000 stall Vitar converter. Today, the cam duration they can run is ridiculous. So, with a wild cam, high spring pressures, and a 4000 + 8" converter, they can get a great launch and wind it high.

Then there are the super head shops today who can work their magic, and get much more power from a set of iron heads than was possible in the '70's, and somehow do it where they will pass tech.

They can now run tight clearances and get by with running the super thin oil and low pressure, along with a crank scraper and modified pan. The ring technology is also better today.

We had to run a TH400 like came behind the 400 engine. Today they can run a trick TH350 with light insides and a 2.75 1st gear. OR even a super light TH200 with a lower 1st gear.

And someone said the 9" slicks of today are much better than those from the 70's. So the better tires, together with the Cal-Trac bars and springs, give 'em all the hook they need to leave hard and get lots of air.

So, all these things add up to a 2 sec quicker ET than was possible 40 years ago. And since there were several E/SA '68 Birds running quick last season, they got an 8 HP hit. I think that's the 1st one ever. I know it was 330hp back in '75.

This 1 sec + under, #2 qualifier may have influenced the hit. Who knows ? Hey, they may look at all the top qualifiers at the bigger races, especially if they are over a sec under.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2014#indextop

Hey, I just can't help it ya'll. I love them '68 Birds !

[Gary Parker]

When I set the H/SA record a few years ago, they torn us down during time trials
and just before first round. I had plenty of help or would have not made first round. Everyone knew I wanted to race so they let me get my stuff checked first. If not, I would never made first round. Don't know if its still done that way, but I was there to race along with setting the record.......

[GEORGE PETERSON]

Can anyone name another sport where performance records expire?
Babe Ruth still holds records he set in 1921.

George Peterson
D/S 4448

[Kevin Panzino]

George, I personally think it is a very good thing that records expire in the case of class racing. Because when a unfairly factored combination sets a record it could stick for a very very long time, which would be entirely disheartening for people who run legitimate, reasonably and fairly factored combinations..
So let the record expire after a reasonable period of time. In the meantime, hopefully the bogus unfairly factored combination has been properly re-factored. If the person wants to set it the record again, they are of course free to do so.
Or, as is the case recently where a very unfairly factored combination just doesn't get hit, or 'wont' get hit for 'certain' reasons, it gets moved into its own separate classes where it can have fun with other similarly grossly underfactored engines and allow the rest of us with reasonably factored combinations to have a chance.

[Ernie Neal]

I don't know about that one Kevin, especially if your the one resetting the record every 2 years. I think mine expires this year again, so tear down again. Now if say that record had been set at real good conditions I could sympathize with you. Like has been said on here before, it would be nice if record setting was rewarded. Since they aren't, let them stand till they are broken. I did think the last one was special, as my son and I set records at the same event. That doesn't happen everyday.

Ernie Neal
SS 354

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Hey THANKS guys ! Ya'll have provided a lot of great info.

I'm real surprised at the info in this post. I just assumed that the winner of every national and divisional would be torn down. Does that mean that only record setting cars are even checked at divisional races ? Does that mean that some of the cars could be running too many cubes and it would never even be checked ?

If this is the case, do ya'll think it's because of the bracket racing nature of class racing now ? Or maybe because the payouts are so low ? Or maybe a combination of things ?

The only negative I can see about somebody running an illegal engine is in the case of a same class, heads up run. In that case it wouldn't seem fair to the other guy IF he is running legal.

Having been around some dirt racing, I know how some guys will fudge all they can get by with.

So, nowadays, is it just assumed that most everybody who runs just the divisional races are fudging a little and most don't really care that much ?

Hey, I'm just trying to learn all I can about how things operate in class racing today. And I can't think of a better way to learn than to ask those who do it. So, thanks again guys for sharing all this info !

There is another way someone can be tore down. The car can be protested.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

There is another way someone can be tore down. The car can be protested.

So, since at least one division has a policy of "no teardowns by protest", does that mean it's up to the division director whether to allow protest teardowns or not ?

That brings up another question. For the divisions where protest teardowns do take place, are the protests directed at those who are not included among the regular division racers. Or do the regulars normally protest each other, if they think they may be fudging a bit ?

I understand about being protested at your local track, if you are not in good with the group. Our '68 E/SA Bird was protested at our local track, after winning the 1st five races of the season in a row. Not only were we not in good with the locals, but we were racing a Pontiac, and it had a female driver. Both of those things made the local boys mad, especially the Chevy guys.

Anyhow, the engine was legal, so a protest was OK with me. But the tech guys didn't know a thing about a Pontiac engine, so they didn't attempt a teardown. They just put it on the scales. Well, since I hadn't stripped out all the street stuff, I assumed the car was probably overweight by quite a bit. But they claimed it was under by just a few pounds. So, I put a spare tire and jack in the trunk, and it didn't slow down at all, that you could notice. Was still the quickest car at our local track, and won the LA State Championship race there, about mid season. But we were definitely not the most popular racers at our local track.