Fuel Injection

BRINK · 12-29-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.Johns

How about breaking it down even further. Separate the cars by the owners income and amount spent on their car. A Hundreth off for every hundred earned/spent. But everyone must still get a trophy and no one can know what class the other is in because it may single others out.

Now, the Star-Bell Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren’t so big. They were really so small.
You might think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.

Then ONE day, it seems while the Plain-Belly Sneetches
Were moping and doping alone on the beaches,
Just sitting there wishing their bellies had stars,
A stranger zipped up in the strangest of cars!

Well said, Mr. Johns. Everybody wins, just like in t-ball. Can't hit the ball, no worries mate, here's your trophy. Show up for Class, not fast, Wally for you.

sammy pizzolato · 12-29-2014, 10:55 AM

Brett You Have It Right!!!!!! But That Would Be To Easy For NHRA. That Is What They Had Some Years Back. It Must Work Fine For IHRA Becuase They Still Have Theres That Way. And They Copied NHRA And Left It Alone.

Bryan Worner · 12-30-2014, 06:18 PM

Does anyone think that a fuel injected motor is that much better than a carb motor? Those who run the 305's and switch back and forth, is there that much of a difference?

Does anyone think a guy, or gal, with a new COPO, Challenger or Mustang is going to run an "old" combo in it??? I don't.

As I look at popular combinations I see that those that were beat to death with hp from those guys who "work hard" on their stuff to go fast all the time, are at a disadvantage to those that are either fairly new combo's or the ones that were "taken care of" over the years. FI or carb, doesn't seem to matter.

So I think NHRA got it right by separating the new cars and their engine combinations and leaving the older FI combinations in the original classes.

Ed Wright · 12-30-2014, 06:39 PM

Well stated Bryan!

Jeff Teuton · 12-30-2014, 08:37 PM

So Bryan, do you think NHRA was correct in not only getting everyone out of Stock and Super Stock with a new car 08 or later (except for the 2008 and newer Jelly Beans-tube chassis cars), do you think the pencil whipping that went with it was also correct. I guess it is also right that my 70 Duster is not only out of GT where it has been since 2009 and never won class anywhere, and got a two tenths faster index to go along with that with no weight changes or other considerations. And my SS-KA got the same treatment except it got a 2.5 tenths from 11.25 to 11.00. I am the only new car in SS/KA in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and Australia and Ohio.
I spoke to them about this and I'm not sure it was intentional. I doubt if everyone noticed (I didn't) the difference in SS and GT between stick and automatic from SS/E-SS/EA ( one tenth) to SS/K-SS/KA (2.5) tenths and GT/A-GT/AA (one tenth) to GT/I-GT/IA (2.5 tenths). What happened I think is because they were adding 23 new classes to Super Stock Eliminator, they used the stick indexes like they did in Stock which resulted in a .05 index hit for all automatic new cars. I have asked NHRA to review this decision. Bryan, you got rid of Eric Bardekoff, Nick Morris, Craig Sullivan, as well as my Duster with the stroke of a pen in GT/FA. You also got rid of 3 including Mark Nowicki in your other class GT/EA. You didn't do this personally, and in your case, I would think you would be proud of NHRA. You didn't even have to go down the track. Just for information, there were 10 new classes created in GT for 16 cars that ran during the 2014 season. I think there are now about 110 classes in Super Stock. Can I say Comp, diversity, one car per class. Working well in Comp. Hopefully NHRA will reconsider these actions.

Ed Wright · 12-31-2014, 10:07 AM

Jeff, if they would just fix the hp factors, nobody would mind running the new cars heads up. I have talked to a few guys that have dyno numbers from the 360" DP like you have, and LT1s like mine. Have not talked to anybody that has seen less than 70 hp difference between the 360", and the LT1 that I run. Most tell me at least 80hp difference. The LT1, which you keep crying about being under rated, and "Needs some hp!" Yet, your 360" is rated 4 less than my LT1. You act like your car has been outlawed, and you can't race it anymore. You just won't have the easy heads-ups now, and the other guys in your class trying to avoid you on the ladder now.

As far as that nasty fuel injection, why don't you talk to engine builders that have dynoed these engines both ways? Bobby Warren, Gary Stinnett, etc. Most everybody I have talked too see 25 more by just putting a carburetor on them. Bobby Warren told me he found that with a Quadrajet on his LT1, not a big Holley. We don't all have 1000 CFM throttle bodies.
You crying LT1s or fuel injection would be like me calling everybody else too fat and too ugly.

Bryan Worner · 12-31-2014, 01:23 PM

Well said Ed!

Jeff, I didnt' say they got it totally right. As far as the indexes go, some are a little steep. However, trying to convice me that the combo's like the 360 Drag Pak and the 352 CJ should still be in GT, won't happen. Any combo (360) that is capable of running in the low 9.0's, high 8's at GT/EA weight, does not belong. Now, if you put them at like 350 hp, then maybe, just maybe I would say yes, only because they would be running the classes they should be, GT/AA or BA. I will never listen to anyone, friend or foe, who tries to tell me that motor is anywhere near factored correctly.

While I did have nothing to do with the new classes being created, I will not be sad to see them go. Every time I ran cars you mentioned, I got outrun easily, and when I say easily, I mean easily! By at least 2 tenths. And I know those cars were only set up to go fast enough to beat me, taking into account that I would have a much better light! So I'm sorry I can't agree with you on all accounts, but we can still be buddies! LOL.

12-29-2014, 10:55 AM	#2
sammy pizzolato Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: houma louisiana Posts: 432 Likes: 52 Liked 56 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection Brett You Have It Right!!!!!! But That Would Be To Easy For NHRA. That Is What They Had Some Years Back. It Must Work Fine For IHRA Becuase They Still Have Theres That Way. And They Copied NHRA And Left It Alone.

12-30-2014, 06:18 PM	#3
Bryan Worner Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duncannon, PA Posts: 825 Likes: 134 Liked 528 Times in 86 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection Does anyone think that a fuel injected motor is that much better than a carb motor? Those who run the 305's and switch back and forth, is there that much of a difference? Does anyone think a guy, or gal, with a new COPO, Challenger or Mustang is going to run an "old" combo in it??? I don't. As I look at popular combinations I see that those that were beat to death with hp from those guys who "work hard" on their stuff to go fast all the time, are at a disadvantage to those that are either fairly new combo's or the ones that were "taken care of" over the years. FI or carb, doesn't seem to matter. So I think NHRA got it right by separating the new cars and their engine combinations and leaving the older FI combinations in the original classes.

12-30-2014, 06:39 PM	#4
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection Well stated Bryan! __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

12-30-2014, 08:37 PM	#5
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 325 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection So Bryan, do you think NHRA was correct in not only getting everyone out of Stock and Super Stock with a new car 08 or later (except for the 2008 and newer Jelly Beans-tube chassis cars), do you think the pencil whipping that went with it was also correct. I guess it is also right that my 70 Duster is not only out of GT where it has been since 2009 and never won class anywhere, and got a two tenths faster index to go along with that with no weight changes or other considerations. And my SS-KA got the same treatment except it got a 2.5 tenths from 11.25 to 11.00. I am the only new car in SS/KA in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and Australia and Ohio. I spoke to them about this and I'm not sure it was intentional. I doubt if everyone noticed (I didn't) the difference in SS and GT between stick and automatic from SS/E-SS/EA ( one tenth) to SS/K-SS/KA (2.5) tenths and GT/A-GT/AA (one tenth) to GT/I-GT/IA (2.5 tenths). What happened I think is because they were adding 23 new classes to Super Stock Eliminator, they used the stick indexes like they did in Stock which resulted in a .05 index hit for all automatic new cars. I have asked NHRA to review this decision. Bryan, you got rid of Eric Bardekoff, Nick Morris, Craig Sullivan, as well as my Duster with the stroke of a pen in GT/FA. You also got rid of 3 including Mark Nowicki in your other class GT/EA. You didn't do this personally, and in your case, I would think you would be proud of NHRA. You didn't even have to go down the track. Just for information, there were 10 new classes created in GT for 16 cars that ran during the 2014 season. I think there are now about 110 classes in Super Stock. Can I say Comp, diversity, one car per class. Working well in Comp. Hopefully NHRA will reconsider these actions. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK Last edited by Jeff Teuton; 12-30-2014 at 08:40 PM.

12-31-2014, 10:07 AM	#6
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection Jeff, if they would just fix the hp factors, nobody would mind running the new cars heads up. I have talked to a few guys that have dyno numbers from the 360" DP like you have, and LT1s like mine. Have not talked to anybody that has seen less than 70 hp difference between the 360", and the LT1 that I run. Most tell me at least 80hp difference. The LT1, which you keep crying about being under rated, and "Needs some hp!" Yet, your 360" is rated 4 less than my LT1. You act like your car has been outlawed, and you can't race it anymore. You just won't have the easy heads-ups now, and the other guys in your class trying to avoid you on the ladder now. As far as that nasty fuel injection, why don't you talk to engine builders that have dynoed these engines both ways? Bobby Warren, Gary Stinnett, etc. Most everybody I have talked too see 25 more by just putting a carburetor on them. Bobby Warren told me he found that with a Quadrajet on his LT1, not a big Holley. We don't all have 1000 CFM throttle bodies. You crying LT1s or fuel injection would be like me calling everybody else too fat and too ugly. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

12-31-2014, 01:23 PM	#7
Bryan Worner Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duncannon, PA Posts: 825 Likes: 134 Liked 528 Times in 86 Posts	Re: Fuel Injection Well said Ed! Jeff, I didnt' say they got it totally right. As far as the indexes go, some are a little steep. However, trying to convice me that the combo's like the 360 Drag Pak and the 352 CJ should still be in GT, won't happen. Any combo (360) that is capable of running in the low 9.0's, high 8's at GT/EA weight, does not belong. Now, if you put them at like 350 hp, then maybe, just maybe I would say yes, only because they would be running the classes they should be, GT/AA or BA. I will never listen to anyone, friend or foe, who tries to tell me that motor is anywhere near factored correctly. While I did have nothing to do with the new classes being created, I will not be sad to see them go. Every time I ran cars you mentioned, I got outrun easily, and when I say easily, I mean easily! By at least 2 tenths. And I know those cars were only set up to go fast enough to beat me, taking into account that I would have a much better light! So I'm sorry I can't agree with you on all accounts, but we can still be buddies! LOL.