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Old 09-04-2014, 11:20 PM   #1
Chuck Rayburn
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:00 AM   #2
FireSale
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Rayburn View Post
Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck
If I understand Jeff's math right, you wouldn't be running heads up with cars that you can't compete with anymore. His adjustment in factoring would class you down and you would run heads up against newer cars that you can match up with.

Dale
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:24 AM   #3
Pedigo Perf
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Where is the 800 foot mark? That is the new finish line under this scenario. Old cars can't change their tail lights and get a new combo with a fresh factor.

Safe to say a 396/400 Camaro makes north of 600 HP with a Wikle or Tilburg engine and that is about 1.5 Horsepower per cube. This is with a dual plane intake, Holley 780 Vac secondary carb, solid lifter .520 lift cam and heavy internal organs. This combo is factored at roughly 1 HP per cube.

Now advance forward to 2014 and look at the engine design! 2.0 HP per cube easily attainable with this design so how do you justify starting a 396 COPO out at 390 HP when it runs past 800 HP easily?

I think starting out these highly tuned race engine stockers at about 1.25 HP per cubic inch would be a pretty fair place to start.

Last edited by Pedigo Perf; 09-05-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:42 AM   #4
ALMACK
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

I like the 10% hp reduction idea.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:55 AM   #5
Jim Bailey
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Thumbs up Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Hey Chuck, additionally, to level the playing field, I'd like CNC ported heads, roller cam, an Alum. block, 9 inch ford rear end, any brand automotive Transmission, AND I'll except the factory HP rating of 425hp. - JB-
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:26 AM   #6
Jim Bailey
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Thumbs up Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Seriously Jeff, we've had this conversation before, your idea is pretty damn good ! -JB-
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:54 AM   #7
Ed Wright
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

How about just giving the new cars the 50 to 75 (a few engines even more) hp they need to level the playing field? I know what some of the best SS 360" Drag Paks and GM LT1s make from the same engine builder, same dyno. Close to 100 hp difference. Just this past week the 360" got bumped up so the LT1 (which isn't at all over rated) doesn't also have to carry more weight in the same class. Last week I would have to be 40 lbs heavier in SS/JA.

I love Jeff (NOT in THAT way) but he wants everybody else to be shuffled around so the few problem cars don't have to do anything different, or (horrors!) slow down. They are the ones wrong, not everybody else. As long as Ford, MOPAR & GM sponsors races, I would not hold my breath until NHRA made it right.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:06 AM   #8
Michael Beard
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Instead of reducing HP on over a thousand old cars, why wouldn't you increase HP on the much smaller number of factory cars, which need a HP increase in the first place? They've already appended numerous class weight breaks above A/SA. As you point out, it's not about "slowing them down", but rather classifying them properly.

Dodge blew the roof off the automotive industry by proclaiming the Hellcat made 707HP. It wouldn't have been very marketable to say "This supercharged 6.2L makes 426HP!" If anything, you'd figure they'd want to redo the weight break/classification structure so that ALL cars, both old and new had HP factors that made some semblance of sense to people in the outside world. Do you want to advertise to the public that your factory race car makes 500HP, or 900HP?

As usual, full disclosure: I run a DragPak combo. I think the new cars are great, and are impressive race cars. I simply feel that NHRA could've included them in a way that was realistic and fair, while actually improving their marketing position.

$.02,
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Stock Suggestion # 1

Boys i'm not sure that would answer any of your prays for a long time. The sad truth of the matter is that there's to many people in the back pockets of each others. There are guys out there building STOCKER motors that 2 years ago wouldn't have even talked to you about one let alone build you one. Its a different breed out there most of them have not been in the stock/ super stock pits trying to turn a nickel into a dime. If you have a CNC head and a plastic manifold it should by all rights make about the same power in 10yrs from now. Correct? But with some of the top head porters know doing heads how many revisions to that CNC port do you think there will be? And they are not going to want to do just one set. I guess it will make finding a virgin set of 300hp heads seem cheap. LOL Not sure what the correct answer is. I guess just be happy with what ever you have and do the best you can. It's going to be a long road how ever you look at it. When 4 or 5 of the top 10 are older cars guess they can't say were not trying. LOL
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