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Old 09-04-2014, 12:20 AM   #1
Mark Yacavone
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

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Originally Posted by Mike Carr View Post
Mark, my proposal revises the current FSS deal somewhat. No more, no less.

Take Indy for example: Indy, they run their normal class all weekend. Come time for Class Eliminations, they run FSS, except ALL the new cars run each other, much like a Stock Combo Class. This would be the new FSS. They all run each other. The winner of that all-run (67 cars at Indy) race would be the FSS winner. And the old cars can still win CC/SA on down (AAA-AA-BB would be empty classes for Class Elims, since those cars would run the 'new' FSS format, unless an older high-hp car can fit). And, in eliminations, they dial-in as normal, except for heads-up runs.

All we are doing is revamping/improving the FSS Format, so that they play under the same AHFS rules as everyone else.

This only applies to races with a FSS Shootout. Which, as far as I know, is only three to four Nat'l Events a year.

Ideally, all new cars would have an FX designation, but NHRA will never add new classes (except for down the road if they need AAAA/SA and AAAAA/SA)
Okay. It takes same amount of total time to run x number of cars, no matter how many in each individual class.. I get this but now they're back in the eliminator beating up on the old cars.

Solution? Put an X in front of the class designation on the "new" cars.
NO heads up runs between X and non X cars..
Yes I just opened up that can of worms.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

I like Mikey's idea for Nat events contesting FS.

How about...other events with Class ; Run all FX stockers in one combo class.

So, you've got one more class trophy to give out .. Big deal .Not gonna break 'em.
Maybe not... Say you have two cars in B/SA...both FX cars. They both go to combo class so they save a trophy there anyway
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:03 AM   #3
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

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Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone View Post
Okay. It takes same amount of total time to run x number of cars, no matter how many in each individual class.. I get this but now they're back in the eliminator beating up on the old cars.

Solution? Put an X in front of the class designation on the "new" cars.
NO heads up runs between X and non X cars..
Yes I just opened up that can of worms.
This would make sense. Now what defines the FX designation? How about anything that has a production run of less than 500 per year, and/or no VIN. That way you leave the door open for a new real production car with a fairly realistic set of stock production car specs being able to compete. (unless NHRA screws with the HP)

Tracy

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Old 09-04-2014, 10:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

How about all cars, new old or otherwise, get factored what they actually make? This way new cars off the dealer lots could feel they have a chance and more manufacturers might want to sponsor cars that actually sound like they are making impressive horsepower numbers. I don't see Comp Cams wanting to run an ad stating a Stocker with their stuff makes 255hp when it's really making close to 500.

NHRA has the mph and weights, it's a simple formula to recalculate horsepower for all combos quarterly.

Weight breaks and indexes would have to be adjusted obviously.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

Looking at cost issues, bringing out new engine stuff for 5 year old cars, supercharged cars going against carbureted cars, etc. leads me to think stock might be/become bracket racing with more rules as to the mods you are allowed. Whether you are crafty, careful, or wealthy, more mods or advantages from factory ratings, it all comes down to trying to run fast but not quite too fast. Then, your competitor buys something else and is a bit faster, and everyone has to step up with cam, rockers, brakes, etc. Some combinations are never seen because their factory HP rating was too high compared to other combinations, and NHRA doesn't bother to level that playing field.

So, to level the playing field, keep costs reasonable, and ensure enough cars are in the field, you come down to bracket racing with more rules about what you can modify or change. Is that what you want?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

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leads me to think stock might be/become bracket racing with more rules as to the mods you are allowed.
I think there is a strong argument to make that Stock is mostly a bracket race already. It's rather rare that there is a heads up run for an eliminator champion. While this thread was started to express the opinion that new cars are the problem with Stock, I could easily argue that the fifty odd classes are a major problem with Stock. There is very little heads up racing outside of class events. Even at Indy there was 31 Stock class runoffs, 19 were 4 cars or less, only 7 required more than 3 rounds including both FS classes. Those numbers are up since NHRA implemented the combo stick and auto, which I really like.

If someone is trying to "fix" the class how does heads-up racing factor into that?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

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Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone View Post
Okay. It takes same amount of total time to run x number of cars, no matter how many in each individual class.. I get this but now they're back in the eliminator beating up on the old cars.

Solution? Put an X in front of the class designation on the "new" cars.
NO heads up runs between X and non X cars..
Yes I just opened up that can of worms.
This is a real good idea. Simple and with an "X" it's now a drivers race. 2008 and newer, no vin you get an "X".

Jeff - Just a fan
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: What's wrong with Stock?

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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
This is a real good idea. Simple and with an "X" it's now a drivers race. 2008 and newer, no vin you get an "X".

Jeff - Just a fan
Just making suggestions.

Here's a few more:

NHRA , Do the X thing for 5 years and see where you're at then..

Only one new FX combo per year, per manufacturer

No retrofits to five year old FX combos.

Quit buying ridiculously low HP ratings at the expense of your long time ,loyal
customers.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #9
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Wink Re: What's wrong with Stock?

OK, so we got Indy fixed. Shoot NHRA, Shoot all the FS people, Shoot the Hot Dog Stands, they were terrible, Burn the AHFS, Present these 486 ideas to NHRA, but wait, we shot them. Let Bruce have his way and make NHRA dissappear and we won't have a sanction. We can just race each with shoe polish. Maybe we need to vote on it, but wait, who can vote? Drivers, probably; Owners, probably; Keyboard racers; why not. Maybe we need the Chuck Rayburn rule; if you don't have a car or haven't raced in 2 years, you got no vote. I know; let's go back to 1958 (my first race). Street tires 4" wide on a good day, mufflers, take the hub caps off, take the spare out and jack, who needs scales, any fuel that will fire, sleep under the race car you drove to the track, always run in pairs so a chain will get both cars home. Or maybe everyone should have a 69 Camaro which you can buy completely new in parts, and I bet you can't build it for the price of a new car. I think someone on here said there were 71 new cars at Indy, I wonder how many new 69 Camaro's were there. Now, how about a new thread on what to do with the 23 or so other races. Sure the FS needs some attention, but never throw out the baby with the bathwater which seems to be the theme here. I have some ideas (I always got some ideas), but I ain't going on this thread. Too many Great Whites here for this seal to swim in.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:40 PM   #10
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Red face Re: What's wrong with Stock?

I've got a idea and it is pretty simple.At Indy everyone who is entered runs in the eliminator.Now all you have to worry about is getting enough grading points to get entered before it is full.
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