what the hell is going with NHRA ???

Michael Lyons · 10-12-2007, 09:50 AM

I am all for democracy. And the recent vote about one button or delay boxes went the way I had hoped for. I like that they are asking whether or not to do anything with the indexes. Instead of implementing a rule change I am not for and have zero say about. I think those types of rule changes hurt car counts.

What was this vote about saving Modified, MIke? Refresh my memory... They wanted to get rid of the class as I recall, so not sure even if the vote was to save the class it would have done any good...

Jeff Lee · 10-12-2007, 12:12 PM

We have leaders, let them lead. If you don't like the leadership, leave. Let NHRA make the rules. If you don't like them, stop racing with NHRA.
Remember, slavery would have been around a lot longer if subject to a poll.

Adger Smith · 10-12-2007, 12:39 PM

I was involved in IHRA modified at the time it started going away. I was told that IHRA management & Tech Dept thought that Modified was an "Elitist" class(that seemed to be pushed by one individual) & IHRA had too many diferent classes. So, it seems a campaign to deminish car count was started & the class died slowly. Ultimately it was then dropped. I don't think any Poll, intervention by racers or even finding a better sponsor could have saved the class. A little side note about the IHRA mindset: I was told(by Bader himself) that the dragsters could & would change to Top Dragster & the others run .90 classes. The door cars would switch to Top Sportsman or a .90 class. Well it's been quite a few years & I have noticed that,for the most part, didn't take place. Some of the racers just quit. I have never seen them at IHRA or NHRA Nationals or Divisionals. (could be racing local brackets) A large number went with NHRA. A couple moved on to Comp & have done well there. Some are now cross back & forth. So, their plan didn't work, at least the part about where the racers would go. The other part was a great success, IHRA had one less class to mess with. I had bad feelings about the loss of value in my racing program. I'm sure there are some people like me. That was the second time I was involved in being dropped from IHRA. (old Stock Optional classes was the other) I have also had 2 hits by NHRA!! Modified/Altered/ Gassers broken up into comp & Super Stock & the 5.5 lb per cu in A/SR class going away. Those experiences taught me not to get hung up in blind support for any organization. Regardless of how we are polled, questioned, stroked or have garbage dumped on us (or we dump on them) we are still just at the mercy of the organizations. In some way shape or form it all just boils down to money. What is a Class worth.

Michael Beard · 10-12-2007, 02:10 PM

Tim writes: >> Im still convinced that a U,,,V,,,or W car could make life very miserable for the 50k stockers

The Turismo may be out again next year... only ran one full season of Stock with it, and finished #11 in NHRA Div. 1. And I was still learning how the thing wanted to be driven! Won a few bracket races with it after that (even whacked a couple of Box cars), before jingling a rod. That was before LED's... it might have a decent spot on the tree shallow, now.

Mike writes: >> What was this vote about saving Modified, MIke?

The main question was keeping it a 32-car Qualified Field or making it All-Run. There was another question on it, but I can't remember what it was. Might've been making it National events only, or combining Divisions or something. Modified was doing ok in Div. 1 (Carolinas) and Div. 3 (Ohio/Michigan), but Div. 2, 4, & 5 were pulling 9 cars at divisional races. Whatever led up to that point (2000) was before my time. With fewer cars, it became harder to justisfy the purse. When purses went pro-rated, car counts dwindled even more. At that point, as Adger said, I don't think anything could've saved it.

Adger writes: >> I was told(by Bader himself) that the dragsters could & would change to Top Dragster & the others run .90 classes. The door cars would switch to Top Sportsman or a .90 class.

I was new at IHRA at the time, and didn't have any say, but that statement was pretty obviously not going to work!

One time Bader called me into his office and asked about paring the .90 classes down into two instead of three, something like an 8.50 and a 9.90. "You want to p*ss everybody off all at once?" He smirked, "Yeah, you're right" and never brought it up again.

I fought to keep deep staging maintained in the rulebook for as long as I was there. The year after I left, it was gone.

10-12-2007, 12:12 PM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: what the hell is going with NHRA ??? We have leaders, let them lead. If you don't like the leadership, leave. Let NHRA make the rules. If you don't like them, stop racing with NHRA. Remember, slavery would have been around a lot longer if subject to a poll. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

10-12-2007, 12:39 PM	#3
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: what the hell is going with NHRA ??? I was involved in IHRA modified at the time it started going away. I was told that IHRA management & Tech Dept thought that Modified was an "Elitist" class(that seemed to be pushed by one individual) & IHRA had too many diferent classes. So, it seems a campaign to deminish car count was started & the class died slowly. Ultimately it was then dropped. I don't think any Poll, intervention by racers or even finding a better sponsor could have saved the class. A little side note about the IHRA mindset: I was told(by Bader himself) that the dragsters could & would change to Top Dragster & the others run .90 classes. The door cars would switch to Top Sportsman or a .90 class. Well it's been quite a few years & I have noticed that,for the most part, didn't take place. Some of the racers just quit. I have never seen them at IHRA or NHRA Nationals or Divisionals. (could be racing local brackets) A large number went with NHRA. A couple moved on to Comp & have done well there. Some are now cross back & forth. So, their plan didn't work, at least the part about where the racers would go. The other part was a great success, IHRA had one less class to mess with. I had bad feelings about the loss of value in my racing program. I'm sure there are some people like me. That was the second time I was involved in being dropped from IHRA. (old Stock Optional classes was the other) I have also had 2 hits by NHRA!! Modified/Altered/ Gassers broken up into comp & Super Stock & the 5.5 lb per cu in A/SR class going away. Those experiences taught me not to get hung up in blind support for any organization. Regardless of how we are polled, questioned, stroked or have garbage dumped on us (or we dump on them) we are still just at the mercy of the organizations. In some way shape or form it all just boils down to money. What is a Class worth. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

10-12-2007, 02:10 PM	#4
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: what the hell is going with NHRA ??? Tim writes: >> Im still convinced that a U,,,V,,,or W car could make life very miserable for the 50k stockers The Turismo may be out again next year... only ran one full season of Stock with it, and finished #11 in NHRA Div. 1. And I was still learning how the thing wanted to be driven! Won a few bracket races with it after that (even whacked a couple of Box cars), before jingling a rod. That was before LED's... it might have a decent spot on the tree shallow, now. Mike writes: >> What was this vote about saving Modified, MIke? The main question was keeping it a 32-car Qualified Field or making it All-Run. There was another question on it, but I can't remember what it was. Might've been making it National events only, or combining Divisions or something. Modified was doing ok in Div. 1 (Carolinas) and Div. 3 (Ohio/Michigan), but Div. 2, 4, & 5 were pulling 9 cars at divisional races. Whatever led up to that point (2000) was before my time. With fewer cars, it became harder to justisfy the purse. When purses went pro-rated, car counts dwindled even more. At that point, as Adger said, I don't think anything could've saved it. Adger writes: >> I was told(by Bader himself) that the dragsters could & would change to Top Dragster & the others run .90 classes. The door cars would switch to Top Sportsman or a .90 class. I was new at IHRA at the time, and didn't have any say, but that statement was pretty obviously not going to work! One time Bader called me into his office and asked about paring the .90 classes down into two instead of three, something like an 8.50 and a 9.90. "You want to p*ss everybody off all at once?" He smirked, "Yeah, you're right" and never brought it up again. I fought to keep deep staging maintained in the rulebook for as long as I was there. The year after I left, it was gone. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

10-12-2007, 09:50 AM	#1
Michael Lyons Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Garden City, MI Posts: 226 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: what the hell is going with NHRA ??? I am all for democracy. And the recent vote about one button or delay boxes went the way I had hoped for. I like that they are asking whether or not to do anything with the indexes. Instead of implementing a rule change I am not for and have zero say about. I think those types of rule changes hurt car counts. What was this vote about saving Modified, MIke? Refresh my memory... They wanted to get rid of the class as I recall, so not sure even if the vote was to save the class it would have done any good...