Changes?

[Ed Wright]

I think Adger nailed it. Bracket racing came along, and that is where the slower class racer guys went, instead of learning more and working harder. Down went the car counts.

Then we got this bogus-slow index deal. A sharp guy can make a legal street car run many of them. They need another half second or more whacked off where they are now. Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear throttle wop wops & see brake lights? Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear somebody lost because they went too fast? Makes no sense to most people. It's like watching bracket racing. People don't consider that racing. It has ruined Stock & Super Stock. IMHO, the CIC system would be much better than running too quick. It would racing. Being fast would mean something again. The AHFS could be adapted to work with that.

As it is, the stands empty when we are called up. Just my thoughts, but I'm old, so.....

[Rose Racing]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I think Adger nailed it. Bracket racing came along, and that is where the slower class racer guys went, instead of learning more and working harder. Down went the car counts.
As it is, the stands empty when we are called up. Just my thoughts, but I'm old, so.....

Then we got this bogus-slow index deal. A sharp guy can make a legal street car run many of them. They need another half second or more whacked off where they are now. Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear throttle wop wops & see brake lights? Who, sitting in the stands, wants to hear somebody lost because they went too fast? Makes no sense to most people. It's like watching bracket racing. People don't consider that racing. It has ruined Stock & Super Stock. IMHO, the CIC system would be much better than running too quick. It would racing. Being fast would mean something again. The AHFS could be adapted to work with that.
,aybe we can just run everybody heads up and become Pro Stock lol oh wait that happened once jk I dont think people run out of the stands because of the format of S or S/s but I think they dont have a clue of whats going on or theyre completely hooked of flaming lawndarts and the fuel they burn. While walking the pits at the cavalcade(Div 3 race at Norwalk I saw plenty of folks walking the pits and crowding around the Stockers and asking ?s and just being interested in them and actually watching them pull wheelstands without hood scoopes and big tires the crowd seemed to love them even though it was techincally bracket racing...... I think if the National Event crowd were actually exposed to the Sportsman ranks instead of being ran at 8 in the morning parked in the back and when they are on the track announcers screaming go check out the nitro pits etc theyre would be more interest. I usually go to the Norwalk Nats on Sunday and usually theyres always a few folks that ask us hey when are the doorslammers coming out? and we say eventually and only 8 of em run they are usually disapointed and I think unfair exposure to the pros are why theyres not as much interest in class racing and If the powers at be wouldnt waste oppurtunities to expand the(REST) of the sport instead of pushing sponsors and sucking drag racing dry it would create more sportsman fans.I wish instead of running Class during the mid week at indy it would be run during primtime friday or saturday night and I also wish they would run class at a few more national and Divisional events. just my 2 cents that aint worth anything

[Ed Wright]

People come around and look at my car all the time. I don't kid myself into thinking it is even 1% of the people there.
I don't see how the CIC deal Comp runs under is anything like Pro Stock. That makes no sense.

[Rose Racing]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

People come around and look at my car all the time. I don't kid myself into thinking it is even 1% of the people there.
I don't see how the CIC deal Comp runs under is anything like Pro Stock. That makes no sense.

I wasnt being serious......LOL I didnt really wanna give my opinion but that would kill the smaller budget guys as it would make it a 100& performance based class and if you have a higher budget with more money to go faster you would win and eventually dominate and eventually kill off the little guy and as you see as much as I hate it comp numbers are dwindling down to nothing. I dont really see whats wrong with current format as if you like bracket racing you can focus on the bracket race and if you like heads up then running class fits you why do we need to change it whats not broke?and with the CIC the blown cars would have an incredible advantage ofer NA cars.

[Ed Wright]

I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is. Any old thing will run under the index like it is now. You don't have to know anything to make one do it. They have really dumbed it down.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend. That looked like racing, and not surprisingly we put quit a few people in the stands. That made more money for the race tracks. Ever look in the stands at these LODRS shows now? About as many as come to watch bracket races. I don't think it has a thing to do with the spectators "understanding sportsman racing". I, and others, have explained dialing, and breaking out, to people. Most will tell you they think it is just dumb losing due to running too fast. To the vast majority of people, racing is trying to get there first. Nothing else makes sense to them. You can explain all you want, they don't "get it" or care to watch it.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
You don't think everybody running harder would cause the new cars to have to run harder to win rounds and get some index & HP corrections?

[Rose Racing]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is. Any old thing will run under the index like it is now. You don't have to know anything to make one do it. They have really dumbed it down.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend. That looked like racing, and not surprisingly we put quit a few people in the stands. That made more money for the race tracks. Ever look in the stands at these LODRS shows now? About as many as come to watch bracket races. I don't think it has a thing to do with the spectators "understanding sportsman racing". I, and others, have explained dialing, and breaking out, to people. Most will tell you they think it is just dumb losing due to running too fast. To the vast majority of people, racing is trying to get there first. Nothing else makes sense to them. You can explain all you want, they don't "get it" or care to watch it.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.
You don't think everybody running harder would cause the new cars to have to run harder to win rounds and get some index & HP corrections?

Yes I do understand it as I watch Competition Eliminator as much as I watch Stock and one of the few that understand it. Just as most folks are I am a little hesitant to change....

[Michael Beard]

You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS.

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I don't imagine "bracket racers" think there is anything wrong like it is.

I'm a bracket racer. I've advocated for a number of things over the years to put more emphasis on performance, but the majority of class racers don't want change. If you have no cars, you don't have a race.

Years ago I won points races running a tenth off the national record. Everybody ran flat out all weekend.

That's great. NASCAR looked a lot different years ago, too. We cannot unlearn what has been learned. You don't have flat out racing even in a CIC format anymore.

You do understand the CIC index corrections, right? You can lower your index the rest of that race, or run far enough under it is your new index permanently.

Yes. The little guy wouldn't last long enough. You complain about the cost just to get to the race track, but want everyone else to compete in a cubic dollars format? Even looking at the Quick 32 CIC races at the Class Nationals, only a handful of the top 32 (let alone the dozens and dozens of slower qualified cars) realistically have any shot at winning. Making S/SS racing a CIC format would lose over half the field instantly, and many more would quickly dwindle away. You think it's a "factory race car" show *now*! No cars, no money, no race.

[Ed Wright]

[quote=Michael Beard;437132]You're more than welcome to go run Comp. Don't portend to destroy two eliminators for the sake of the "fans" who don't understand or care for Comp any more than S/SS. [QUOTE]

If I could afford it, I would run Comp. I don't have that kind of money.
Super Stock is one eliminator. I have no interest in how Stock is run.

Yes. The little guy wouldn't last long enough. You complain about the cost just to get to the race track, but want everyone else to compete in a cubic dollars format? Even looking at the Quick 32 CIC races at the Class Nationals, only a handful of the top 32 (let alone the dozens and dozens of slower qualified cars) realistically have any shot at winning. Making S/SS racing a CIC format would lose over half the field instantly, and many more would quickly dwindle away. You think it's a "factory race car" show *now*! No cars, no money, no race.

With CIC, first car to the finish line wins. Spectators understand that.

What is a "little guy" in SS? What is a "big guy"? I'm semi-retired 70+ year old guy, and build my own engines. I have no crew, most always by myself . I'm a "little guy", right?