Cheating [2-step And Buttons]

[Cam]

Originally Posted by clutch man

WHATS FAIR FOR 1 SHOULD BE FAIR FOR THE OTHER??????? Why let one car do it and not the other i run a stick but whats good for one car is good for the other no unfair treatment for a certain combo make it fair for all cars and drivers. now lets start another argument for stick cars????????? and 2 steps?????????????? hahahahahah be here all year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comparing stick cars in Stock with automatics is a bit like apples and oranges isn't it? As Rod says the launch is controlled solely by your left foot. The only electronics effecting the launch of the car is the wiring to your brain.
What would be that plan to launch a stick car without a 2 step? Seems fairly clear without a two step the stick racers are not in the game.
Keep the rpm control but leave with your foot. IMO that's Stock.
Cam Chowen
NHRA 6067
B/FI

[Beth Denysenko]

Then we have a solution. Allow two steps, but only with a pedal activation. No advantage for sticks or automatics, and if you want to run one, you can, if you don't, footbrake away.

I have not been racing long, but learned footbraking. I have now made 14 passes using the two step and I must say it has greatly helped my consistency downtrack as I am leaving at the same RPM every time - still looking for the consistency off the line but I understand totally that comes with practice practice. And I am still trying to figure out a consistent way to stage with the two step, but with only 14 attempts, I don't expect miracles.

There are SO SO SO many ways to lose in this sport. And with a slower car, I have an additional one with the first opportunity to redlight (I know, another discussion). Keep the two steps please, since this essentially is a bracket class and the consistency they offer helps a newbie like me even the playing field even just a bit. And for those "footbrake only" guys, try it some time. You might not be so quick to get them out of the sport. Might even want one on your car.

[tgriffith]

Beth,,yes your car will be more consistent,,,yes,,it easier to hold,,,,yes,,you leave at exactly the same RPM,,,,,,,,,You will be extremely hard pressed to ever be consistent on the tree,,,,,,the reason is because you will have to rythm race to have any type of RT to be competitve,,,,not that it cant be done,,It can BUT your problem lies with the LED`s,,,,,,Almost everyone I know that rythm raced has an extreme tough time doing so now,,,,And Im not talking about racers who dont win,,,Im speaking of world champs,,,,track champs,,,A few, I consider some of the best on the planet,,,,,just cant do it anymore,,,,,,,,,In the neck of the woods where I race,,,how they dealt with this problem is they got faster cars,,,,,Its likely to go to a race and by the 3rd round, if your dialed 6.8`s,,,,your the slowest car in the field,,,,,,anyway

the reason I`m stating this is,,think what your trading off, the A-E cars are able to flash race and be .010 nearly every pass while slower cars (without the aid of deepstaging) are stuck rythm racing ,,,,IN your car,,no matter what your think,,,to have a good RT (between .000 and .020),,,you will need to leave about ..07 to .10 BEFORE the last LED,,,,,I know there will be those who claim,,,no not me,,,I see the last LED,,,,do yourself a favor ,,,go to a test and tune,,,,ask them to set for a .500 pro tree and just see,,,,,you will be surprised what you find,,,,,

,,,,,the one thing I keep hearing is that the "winners of the week" could win in anything,,,,,,,maybe thats true,,,so why are they driving A-d cars if they can win in a P/SA???.....just look at the results,,they dont lie,,,,,,why would you spend 50k in a car when you could spend only 10k in a car if there is no advantage???,,,,,It all comes back to the 2step/button leaving,,,,

[Mickey Whaley]

If the button goes to the brake pedal a switch would have to be installed so it doesn't engage itself again at the finish line when you step on the pedal again. Ive done that before alot of banging and popping.

[Kandra Villani]

I've driven a car that IS set up so the 2 step is only engaged in low gear on the line. SOME of you are making generalizations for others based on only YOUR car about no problems involved in "holding the car" on the line, The car I mention is NOT a SS car, it's a SLOW stocker. (See the "other" forum for a post by Lane Weber leaving Class Racing). This car has NO availability for larger drums, and therefore cannot be "held" at a decent rpm on the line. The brakes on this car basically suck, we used to footbrake it, but it cost ET. The car I mention STILL, after spending a bunch of money, and now having blown the new engine in less than a season, battling the index. Between letting this racer (who kicks our butts in anything, including a bathtub with wheels if it were available) no longer have a 2 step, and changing the index, he's basically done. Yes, some cars can hold just fine on the footbrake, but there are a select few that the combo just doesn't have that ability. Ok, put larger drums on, fine, IF available. He's tried vacuum cans and all the tricks, the car won't hold. So, now he's done with class racing. This man is a former WORLD CHAMP, not in Stock, but he's a former D5 champ in Stock, and so..........he's thinking he's just flat done. Thanks to the whiners and maybe a couple of cheaters. The technology is available, why can't we use it???? I think it just makes it so NHRA doesn't have to go looking, and I understand, it's a tough job, but taking out racers that don't have serious amounts of $$$ to change everything, isn't right.

BTW, NHRA has refused to change his hp in the past, yet there are combos in his class that have recieved hp back TWICE in just one year!!!! We started that combo in 1997, he's still battling it!!! He's written letters and the like, the person on the East Coast that has/had that combo ran well, but with WAY more funding.

I think that the decision by NHRA is a hasty one. I know 2 other D5 racers that the changes will probably push out of competition as well.

Kandra

it sounds to me that some of the stick guys
forget the fact that you still have to hold the car with your left foot and release the car with the same foot.weather your using a button or not you are stiill using both feet.

joe mocci

[stockracer]

Griffith...How does your leaving .07-.1 before the green come in to effect with some one who is blocking? Blocking is esintally a pro tree, right? And the A-B-C cars are built to chase, Not for buttons, I can block and use a button in a 1.60 60' car...I know of plent of L-M cars the 60' with that! As far as class combination goes...I hate to see what it will cost to win class in B-C-D when theres 15 per class! Cost goes up, payout goes down! I may have to take everything back that ive ever said about the I-side, swallow my pride and go race over there!

Bring Back Deepstaging!
Leave The Buttons!
Give Electro-Magnet Clutch Pedals!
Leave The Classes The Same!
Leave The Indexes!
Change Change The AHFS...-1.10 under get auto 3hp everytime no matter where its at! Average of -.4 Gets 3hp Back! And Make It Count For Every Run, Not Just Qual/1st rd. Class!

GO RACING!!!

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by Cam

What would be that plan to launch a stick car without a 2 step?

I still have the factory ECM in the car. If they say bye bye to two-steps then I will just go back in there and set the Park/Neutral Rev Limiter to what I want. Not much can be said about the paramaters of the factory ECM.

stockracer, I don't think you get what Tim is saying. At this point in time slower cars have the ability to leave off of the flash due to the use of a two-step, but when you take it away, only the fast cars can leave on the flash.

So in effect LEDs, no 2-step, and no deep staging have ruled out a real slow car.

[stockracer]

Ok...I see...I didnt realize who 'Beth" was but that is a slower car...

[jdfpam]

Stockracer,
Honestly, IHRA isn't bad at all and everyone I know in stock is friendly with eachother and would welcome you.



Joe Mocci,
I don't think that this whole two step issue was started to accuse peole of cheating. I think it is part of it, since buttons and two steps really open the door for those who want to cheat. I don't know if anyone is or not, but I also know that we never really get checked. Maybe that would change if tech would hire an electronic wiz and turn him loose on some people. Would be interesting.


Jeff Day