Econo Modified

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by joespanova

A 2.5 inch collector ? Really ?

Yes. Although a 2" cone would be better. The concept of coupling restrictions on both the intake (restrictor plate) and exhaust (collector) massively mitigates any gains from trying to work the carb, cylinder heads, etc, because it can't breathe. It's not worth spending money on a no-gain proposition. If you used this method, you wouldn't *need* a spec head. Install the plate and collector on any combination, and go play. Tech is a breeze.

We did extensive computer modeling of this concept, ending up with everything from 350 small blocks to 540 big blocks running within less than a tenth of each other. Some ran the first half of the track better, and some ran the back half better, but it all came out in the wash. You can make weight break adjustments for different transmission types, body styles, or whatever you find out is necessary.

Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal.

We had 500+ spectators on Saturday of our American Doorslammer Nationals at Fayetteville in November, because we bothered to pass out a few flyers and only charged $10. Obviously not an overwhelming crowd, but not bad for "just a bracket race", and $150 marketing investment. Motor Mania TV regularly has over 10,000+ viewers watching big money bracket racing online. Anything that's not promoted will have zero appeal. Different types of racing appeals to different crowds. While not every crowd is interested in every market, there is a particular crowd for every market.

[randy wilson]

Ok, I'm confused. Am I to believe that a 461X head unported, with tall valves, and big springs will run with a 15 degree done by Reher and Morrison? Someone needs to tell the Nascar guys, they're spending WAY to many $ on heads in the restrictor plate classes. They don't know a stock vortec will do the same thing, and only cost $800.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Ok, I'm confused. Am I to believe that a 461X head unported, with tall valves, and big springs will run with a 15 degree done by Reher and Morrison? Someone needs to tell the Nascar guys, they're spending WAY to many $ on heads in the restrictor plate classes. They don't know a stock vortec will do the same thing, and only cost $800.

No, a 461X head won't run with a 15 degree head but you're manipulating the facts. The Nascar guys don't run the same exact heads on a restrictor plate motor or the same heads, cam, pistons or intake. And they're not restricting the exhaust either.

[Glenn Hayes]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

We did extensive computer modeling of this concept, ending up with everything from 350 small blocks to 540 big blocks running within less than a tenth of each other. Some ran the first half of the track better, and some ran the back half better, but it all came out in the wash.

Michael,
Has anyone done some real world testing of this on some drag cars?
I'm curious.

If I understand what your stating, in theory, we should be able to pick 20 cars, equip each with a single 4 barrel carb, install the 1" carb plate and the 2" header collector and have a group of cars that should E.T. with in approximately 0.10 of one another.

[randy wilson]

I'm curious too. Did they all weigh the same, as in lbs. per cubic inch?

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hayes

Michael,
Has anyone done some real world testing of this on some drag cars?
I'm curious.

If I understand what your stating, in theory, we should be able to pick 20 cars, equip each with a single 4 barrel carb, install the 1" carb plate and the 2" header collector and have a group of cars that should E.T. with in approximately 0.10 of one another.

We actually had a major track owner and a DD interested in this and we had cars lined up to test but everybody got too busy and it never got done. BUT it'll be a whole bunch easier to get "20 cars, equip each with a single 4 barrel carb, install the 1" carb plate and the 2" header collector" and actually test them then it will be to get 20 cars, equip each with the same manufacturers spec head, install a trick clutch and 4 or 5 speed and get them all to weigh in on a 10 lb. per cube weight break!

[Dick Butler]

Billy very good point. Probably will take a few test and tune runs for jetting etc . Only difference is the guys will still have the 20K + motors when all is said and done but it would allow a test of the theory.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Billy very good point. Probably will take a few test and tune runs for jetting etc . Only difference is the guys will still have the 20K + motors when all is said and done but it would allow a test of the theory.

Dick, by restricting the intake AND the exhaust you take away the need for that 20K + motor. It may even become a hinderance as your big cam and heads are going to cause reversion issues at some point, something that you don't need with a restricted intake. I believe that cylinder pressure, gearing and an overall ability to tune the combo will be the major factor. I also believe that you would wind up with two totally different schools of thought in the long run, big, torque monster dump truck motors and smaller well tuned and higher winding modified type motors.

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Dick, by restricting the intake AND the exhaust you take away the need for that 20K + motor. It may even become a hinderance as your big cam and heads are going to cause reversion issues at some point, something that you don't need with a restricted intake. I believe that cylinder pressure, gearing and an overall ability to tune the combo will be the major factor. I also believe that you would wind up with two totally different schools of thought in the long run, big, torque monster dump truck motors and smaller well tuned and higher winding modified type motors.

I understand Billy but the test cars would not prove too much towards the theory as you said they would still have the Cams, the heads, the parts.... We all are aware the small carb and exhaust would limit the performance so in some ways the testing would be of limited information.
As for monster truck motor remember the lb per cubic inch idea. No more 9 passenger wagons on steroids.
I am with Randy and many others it may never happen that an organization will decide to limit these specs BUT... just heard power boat racing has now developed a sealed or spec motor class. It has worked till now the guys are spending the money on trick hull for advantages.
Maybe if IHRA made any noise about it NHRA would do it to out do them.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

just heard power boat racing has now developed a sealed or spec motor class.

Check into the APBA and let me know what you think then. They're hurting so badly for participants that they, on occasion, have to cancel races.