Are COPO's, CJ's and Drag Packs good for our sport?

[RJ Sledge]

Hey Jethro Good Lesson and great teacher......I'm bringing you an Apple!!

RJ

[chris ok]

Originally Posted by Bobby DiDomenico

Was this driven to a cruise night or trailered to a show?

It was trailered in.
glad people got to see it. Fans and future ones need to see these new cars.
I was there as they were getting ready to put it back in trailer. Don't know who it was.
Chris

[D.Johns]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

Thanks for posting that.

Now that the prices of used 2011 Mustangs with the 3.7 V-6 are coming down, I would love to get one and mod it to fit Pure Stock ( or Stocker ) rules to see what it is capable of.
However, even if NHRA allowed it in their classification guide, it would probably be rated at 304 h.p. like what was in the Ford sales brochures.

That is the problem. They are unfavorable to build based on what they are rated from the factory. There are only a few newer cars that were underrated enough and have the potential to grow to be a competitive car in this type of class. Most go to other classes in the NMRA/NMCA etc.

Ford has the Shelby, GT, Bullet, Roush and 6cyl in the guide for 2005-2008(more before that also). No one to my knowledge has built one. There were a few in the works but when the Cobra Jet was released they switched a few parts and made a clone instead. When there was low interest to build a Stk/SS car from a new car the CJs in 2008 got people interested again in larger number. Now we have all 3 American companies with many different flavors to build.

If you have one of new cars why wouldn't you make a clone for a more favorable combo that uses practically all the same parts as the VIN # cars? For instance:2011-2012 GT(420hp/3600#)Swap pistons and hood and you have a 2012 CJ 5.0(325hp/3200). And if you dont want to tear down an engine to do a simple change of pistons then you are getting into the wrong class anyway. The Cobra Jets use many large components that people get when they buy the VIN cars as daily drivers. It's easy to build a clone and if your good with your hands it can be done for less money.

What FRPP did was create a car that people who buy the current Mustang do to them when they buy the production model. They made what us Hot Rodders already wanted into a Production car that runs down the assembly line.

[jmantle]

Originally Posted by D.Johns

That is the problem. They are unfavorable to build based on what they are rated from the factory. There are only a few newer cars that were underrated enough and have the potential to grow to be a competitive car in this type of class. Most go to other classes in the NMRA/NMCA etc.

Ford has the Shelby, GT, Bullet, Roush and 6cyl in the guide for 2005-2008(more before that also). No one to my knowledge has built one. There were a few in the works but when the Cobra Jet was released they switched a few parts and made a clone instead. When there was low interest to build a Stk/SS car from a new car the CJs in 2008 got people interested again in larger number. Now we have all 3 American companies with many different flavors to build.

If you have one of new cars why wouldn't you make a clone for a more favorable combo that uses practically all the same parts as the VIN # cars? For instance:2011-2012 GT(420hp/3600#)Swap pistons and hood and you have a 2012 CJ 5.0(325hp/3200). And if you dont want to tear down an engine to do a simple change of pistons then you are getting into the wrong class anyway. The Cobra Jets use many large components that people get when they buy the VIN cars as daily drivers. It's easy to build a clone and if your good with your hands it can be done for less money.

What FRPP did was create a car that people who buy the current Mustang do to them when they buy the production model. They made what us Hot Rodders already wanted into a Production car that runs down the assembly line.

As far as the HP ratings go, that's what the AHFS is supposed to fix. I admit it could use some improvement but it does sort of work. As far as building clones go, great in theory but will these pieces be available in 5, 10 years? I seriously doubt it.
I see the "affordable" stockers disappearing in the future, hurting the participation in the class. Maybe that's what the manufacturers want, only their current hotrods in S/SS. I hope NHRA realises this would seriously reduce car counts in the future and have the fortitude to do something about it.

Jim Mantle

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by jmantle

As far as building clones go, great in theory but will these pieces be available in 5, 10 years? I seriously doubt it.

There's already plenty of the CJ parts no longer available. Some were never available.

[D.Johns]

What parts are you looking for?
Body wise;
You can still get the hoods through a number of suppliers. The grill is from the California Special with the running horse removed. The front facia is from the california special also. The rear bumper is from the California Special and Shelby(08). Quarter windows from silver horse racing(unless your parts guy happens to have a set of original FRPP units THANKS MIKE!!!!), wheels it doesn't matter but some guys still have some. Stickers doesn't matter but you can still order them from FRPP dealers or I believe it's through competition graphics who made them originally??

The engine
2008-2012 5.4 is Shelby/GT40 heads, block, roller finger followers, hydraulic lash adjusters, timing chains/tensioners and Shelby cam gears. and the crank is available through FRPP. The TVS is available through Eaton, FRPP, and is standard on the 2013/14 Shelby.
2010 3v 4.6- Stock GT heads with FRPP CNC program, FRPP intake, stock crank and all the other stock items
2012 5.0- Stock GT everything except Mahle Pistons.(and F150 parts)
2013 5.0- Boss 302 heads, and GT/Boss block and crank and all the other stock odds and ends. The Supercharger can be ordered directly from Whipple but also some other dealers carry it. You can order the complete engine from FRPP or have your engine builder order everything also.
The Pushrod stuff isn't going away anytime soon I don't think as the Z304 heads, boss blocks and items are needed outside of Stk/SS.

A lot of this stuff can be bought at FRPP dealers, Ford Dealers and found in Junkyards. The TI sheets also have the factory transmissions covered in the GTs.

Everytime I need anything I just give Mike at BuyFordRacing a call. He has a lot of items that seem hard to come by.
So far I've gotten from mike the Competition kit BIW kit, CJ Recaros, FRPP quarter Louvers, FRPP block off plates, FRPP air bag delete cover.(and 2 sets of Ford GT/Shelby hydraulic lash adjusters for another project) as soon as paint is done I'll be ordering the rear, aeromotive fuel system, block, crank, heads and tensioners. We are talking about wheels now. I've picked up the other items from the local Ford Dealer. There are some other odds and end stuff that I'm getting from Holbrook and Watson racing. All and all, all the parts have been easy to come by. Sure my progress has been very slow since the whole thing is being done when I have the extra time and money. Work has been really busy so I've only gotten maybe 1 or 2 Saturdays a month to work on the car and I'm on a shoe string budget compared to some others running the class. But it's been fun doing all the work myself and with some help of family and friends. We should be out and ready for the 2014 season with the car if I can free up more time and money.

Kdanner
Let me know what you are looking for and I'll see if I can help you locate anything or items on hand.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by jmantle

As far as the HP ratings go, that's what the AHFS is supposed to fix. I admit it could use some improvement but it does sort of work. As far as building clones go, great in theory but will these pieces be available in 5, 10 years? I seriously doubt it.
I see the "affordable" stockers disappearing in the future, hurting the participation in the class. Maybe that's what the manufacturers want, only their current hotrods in S/SS. I hope NHRA realises this would seriously reduce car counts in the future and have the fortitude to do something about it.

Jim Mantle

I know the AHFS works for combos that are underrated.

However, if a combo is over-rated to start with, it's dead in the water and no-one will be interested. And there are several of them already in the classification guide.

Thus the problem I see here.
Even if the VIN cars are accepted, their S.A.E. HP ratings are too high to start with.
Now....if there was a multiplication factor times the factory rated power to start, then you might have more people interested in the combo.

Example: (only because I would love to toy with one)

2011 Mustang V-6 3.7L...rated from Ford @ 304 h.p.
Take 304 hp times a starting factor of .80 = 243 h.p.

The AFHS would take it from there and adjust up if needed.

That might have more people building new, fresh combos.

Just an idea.

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by D.Johns

Let me know what you are looking for and I'll see if I can help you locate anything or items on hand.

I've already tried chasing down the parts with more than one person at Ford racing, didn't get anywhere. Those 2013 302/350 cars, that they only built 3 of, you can't get the zip tube between the throttle body and MAF, and never could. The intake manifolds they sell over the counter today, not the same as what came on those cars either.

[6t5frlane]

Originally Posted by NewHemi

Not good for the sport, unless they are all equal.

Supercharged vs Naturally aspirated?????

When did that become equal?

It only became legal when Ford became a sponsor and started sucking on the NHRA's tailpipe. And it is no coincidence that Ford was the only one with a supercharger running in Stock and later in Super Stock.

They got the "Make Your Own Air" edge.

And then Chevy was next. A supercharged Copo. And suddenly the Fords had a little real competition. But they had already owned the playground, and ruled the roost for quite a while, so who could now object to a bow tie winning a few races. It only seemed fair. And another supercharged car competed with naturally aspirated cars.

Chrysler was NOT allowed to put a supercharger on the Drag Paks. Why? Because if they had, both Ford and Chevy would have had to compete with innovation, rather than just turn the screw for more horsepower.

But Chrysler will have to continue trying to do with cubic inches and the last great push rod engines, with what Ford and Chevy do with hair dryers.

But the question was not, are supercharged cars in Stock, and Super Stock fair.

So here is my answer:

Generally, the new technology cars are good for the sport because the crowds (the twelve to eighteen people, who show up for stock, and super stock) enjoy them.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Rumors of the 2015 Hellcat Hemi Challenger are around. How owuld they fit in NHRA ? Drag Pack?

[Ken Miele]

Ford Racing placed an ad in this weeks National Dragster, I though its pretty cool that they show support for not only the new cars, but the old ones also.

kdanner, I don't know why your having issues locating parts. PM and I will locate all parts that you need. They are available from Ford Racing. I assume when your talking about a zip tube, you mean the air intake. There is no air intake on the 5.0 N/A like they have on the supercharged combo. The part number for the COBRA JET 5.0L 4V INTAKE MANIFOLD M-9424-M50CJ*, and its the same as the as factory cars.


Jim, I assure you the parts will be around for a long time. You can build a clone CJ, 5.0 N/A or 4.6 for the same money you would spend I any similar older combo. You can pick up 2010 Mustang fairly cheap these days.