Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Notch1320

1.18 -1.21 on the car I crew on. 3500lbs...........Leaf Springs........Bolt on replacement style front clip. 52-53% on the nose.

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.

No, it can't. I'd take them off if I could.

[Ian Hill]

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.[/QUOTE]

And what you are missing is that if you'd put slicks on instead of the drag radials, cranked the rpm up on the launch and made some serious starting line power (as apposed to launching at a low rpm, or low timing to reduce power) a setup that would most likely run quicker than the 5.00 you've posted, you'd need wheelie bars. You may be the quickest in your class, that is limited in tire spec, but if there was no tire spec, you'd hit it harder out of the hole like we do and scape your bumper on good tracks, like we can.

My stocker has road a 300 foot wheel stand right verticle, my super stock has hit the bars so hard the rear wheels came of the ground. my 1967 1000hp super charged chevelle pulls 1.5' wheelies, no bars.

...i think yellow bullet has forum where you may make more sense!

[Bruce Noland]

Alan,
Notch is switching things around a bit. The toaster car turns a 1.28 sixty foot while running a 3.50 rear gear and a 1.80 first gear in a glide. And uses coil over ladder bars and it still appears to be turning the tires. Now he wants to talk about a car he is crewing. He's just out here jacking around. Nothing he has posted has anything to do with Stockers.

[Todd Geisler]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little.

My own car is a heads up, N/A car. Car weighs 2960 with driver and has 54% of the weight on the nose. It's got a conventional headed BBC that makes between 1100 and 1200 hp. The converter flashes to 7000 rpm, 4.57 rear gear on a 275/60 DOT drag radial tire which is 28" tall and has 10" of tread.

The car runs 5.0's at 137 mph and has 60'd a best of 1.129.

I'm just sharing this as there has been some misinformation when the heads up stuff was brought up.

I have used bars for several years, but when I started running this new class they are illegal, so I was forced to figure out how to run the car without them and keep the front end down. No it's not easy and if you make a bad tuning call it will go up (much quicker and more violent than a stocker).

Now, last I knew stockers weren't allowed travel limiters, but S/S was correct?

I'll also concede that lower HP cars need some weight transfer to get up on the tire where a higher HP car can plant it with power.

I will say this, I'm glad I no longer use the bars. They were a PITA as far as I'm concerned. It also makes you work harder to find the right setup for the days track/weather conditions as well as the tuneup you have in the car. That to me is a fun challenge even if I fail to get it right.

I would ask this. If bars were suddenly made illegal on stockers, would those who run just park their cars, or would you buckle down and figure out a way to make it work without them?

Stock and S/S are great classes, some of my favorites by far. I kinda treat mine as if I was running S/S on small tires & stock suspension as far as running as hard as possible to the 60 & 330.

And I do understand you can't easily compare low & high HP cars when it comes to some of this stuff.

[TOSTO RACING]

If wheellie bars were illegal in stock i'd buy some 205/70/15 radials,a powerglide, and run the dog squat nationals! And go 10.90's and 310 mph lol!

I really can't believe these guys are worried about a notch in the valance panel with all the other stuff that is legal in stock lol.

That's my .08 cents worth lol!

[Todd Geisler]

Originally Posted by TOSTO RACING

If wheellie bars were illegal in stock i'd buy some 205/70/15 radials,a powerglide, and run the dog squat nationals! And go 10.90's and 310 mph lol!

I really can't believe these guys are worried about a notch in the valance panel with all the other stuff that is legal in stock lol.

That's my .08 cents worth!

No doubt the no-notch rule is silly. I guess the NHRA folks had no real reason for the rule other than maybe looks which is why they got flustered with the OP's questions & dialogue.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Todd Geisler

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little.

My own car is a heads up, N/A car. Car weighs 2960 with driver and has 54% of the weight on the nose. It's got a conventional headed BBC that makes between 1100 and 1200 hp. The converter flashes to 7000 rpm, 4.57 rear gear on a 275/60 DOT drag radial tire which is 28" tall and has 10" of tread.

The car runs 5.0's at 137 mph and has 60'd a best of 1.129.

I'm just sharing this as there has been some misinformation when the heads up stuff was brought up.

I have used bars for several years, but when I started running this new class they are illegal, so I was forced to figure out how to run the car without them and keep the front end down. No it's not easy and if you make a bad tuning call it will go up (much quicker and more violent than a stocker).

Now, last I knew stockers weren't allowed travel limiters, but S/S was correct?

I'll also concede that lower HP cars need some weight transfer to get up on the tire where a higher HP car can plant it with power.

I will say this, I'm glad I no longer use the bars. They were a PITA as far as I'm concerned. It also makes you work harder to find the right setup for the days track/weather conditions as well as the tuneup you have in the car. That to me is a fun challenge even if I fail to get it right.

I would ask this. If bars were suddenly made illegal on stockers, would those who run just park their cars, or would you buckle down and figure out a way to make it work without them?

Stock and S/S are great classes, some of my favorites by far. I kinda treat mine as if I was running S/S on small tires & stock suspension as far as running as hard as possible to the 60 & 330.

And I do understand you can't easily compare low & high HP cars when it comes to some of this stuff.

Being the Devil's advocate is cool. You listed several important reasons for the the use of wheelie bars and then implied (knuckle down) that racers were taking the easy way out by using them. The builders and racers use them because they offer substantial protection for driver and race car. Wheelie bars have worked for years and will continue to do so even if there are a few people in the tech department who don't understand their importance. And that is the reason I started this thread - the huge disconnect between the rule book reading tech department staff and the racers.

So your question of either parking the cars or changing them is based on something that will never happen and offers a false premise. No, I don't think you are trying to be tricky. But, the executives at nhra would never ever take away a piece of safety equipment that could result in serious legal exposure for injury or death. Remember this safety equipment was openly supported and approved by nhra personel and then published in the Dragster when accepted..

Another point to remember is that many of us build and work on our own cars and for some the wheelie bars offer a greater amount of protection. The legal folks at nhra know this as well.

[Chad Rhodes]

I think using small tire, heads up cars in a comparison of safety is a bit of a bad idea, especially when talking about an item that is primarily for crash avoidance.

[Bruce Noland]

Must be one of those newly approved, tubbed, four link, squat, turbo Deuces for Stock. Of course it has nothing to do with wheelie bars on Stockers.

[james schaechter]

I think the best argument for wheelie bars in stock is that no one really uses them right now unless they really have concern for safety or at least damage to their car.

We tried them on our Nova when they were first allowed and found no need afterall. Really, after looking at it, I figured I would hit the rear bumper before any real bad things would happen.
On Bob Gipson's 65 Corvette, we put them on when the 396 went in. I think you could flip that car over without them if you miscued on the chassis set up. I feel a lot better having them on that car.

Honestly, the things that NHRA choses to draw the line on makes you shake your head when they allow lame factors and bogus cars into the stock guide without batting an eye.

In the recent times, the National event track prep has been an issue for many, you would think that NHRA would want to support any allowance that would help racers tune theirway out of that mess safely.