Mike Cotten you are the MAN!

Michael Beard · 02-18-2013, 10:53 AM

Note that the pre-stage and stage bulbs not only go out, but they STAY out, even with the car sitting there. That wasn't a flicker. How long was the camera flash?

Ed Wright · 02-18-2013, 11:44 AM

If that had been me sitting there it would have been over. I wouldn't have gotten a re-run.

sammy pizzolato · 02-18-2013, 12:22 PM

i am with you ed.if that would have been me or you the race would have been over.don't get me wrong i like jimmy and his dad but if you watch the pic on the starting line when jimmy's car red lighted the stage beams go out at the same time the red light came on.mike got a raw deal on that race.they should have never re run that race.watch the vid.and you be the judge.

MLP · 02-18-2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy pizzolato

i am with you ed.if that would have been me or you the race would have been over.don't get me wrong i like jimmy and his dad but if you watch the pic on the starting line when jimmy's car red lighted the stage beams go out at the same time the red light came on.mike got a raw deal on that race.they should have never re run that race.watch the vid.and you be the judge.

Hmm, you're right, his stage beam does go out, didn't notice that when I first watched the video. I can't see the car move in the video, but that doesn't mean it didn't and just wasn't visable. I hate when this kind of crap happens and really feel bad for Mike.

Michael Beard · 02-18-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

I can't see the car move in the video, but that doesn't mean it didn't and just wasn't visable.

It wasn't just the stage beam (ie., rocking back out of the beams). Both the pre-stage and stage lights went out simultaneously. Consider how far and how quickly the car would've had to move in order for that to happen. It would most definitely have been visible. The redlight was obviously in error.

KRatcliff · 02-18-2013, 01:45 PM

I feel for Mike, but at the end of the day he still has Paula. There are far worse outcomes.

SuperStockDodge · 02-18-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

I feel for Mike, but at the end of the day he still has Paula. There are far worse outcomes.

This is true...

Hi Kyle

Brian VP · 02-18-2013, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Note that the pre-stage and stage bulbs not only go out, but they STAY out, even with the car sitting there. That wasn't a flicker. How long was the camera flash?

My thoughts exactly Mike. I watched it about 10 times and the first thing that I noticed was that once the pre-stage and stage lights went out they never came back on. It wasn't a flash that caused it and Jimmy did not move. There was obviously an error in the timing system. Stinks for Mike but there was something out of Jimmy's control. My only problem is I have seen times where this type of annomoly has occurred and they did not re-run. Unless something showed them on the timing computer that an error had occurred? Ultimately I believe the right decision was made. I feel maybe they should have run the final at another race (so Mike didn't have to run back and do it again) Awful lot of emotion for someone to go through in 5 minutes.

Brian VP · 02-18-2013, 02:53 PM

And after thinking about it and watching it again. The stage and pre-stage lights never even came back on when he rolled through with the REAR TIRES! There was definately a glitch in the system and it was not caused by something on the outside like a flash.

Racin Mason · 02-18-2013, 03:35 PM

This exact same thing happened to me at the Winternationals 2 years ago, but with a very different decision from Mike Rice and company. Same left hand lane. The red light came on when the 2nd yellow came on just like this run. The only difference is when I saw the red light come on, I stayed put and never moved. When the red light came on BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights went out just like this run. When the tree reset BOTH the pre-stage and stage were lit proving the car didn't move.

I went up to the tower and argued this with Mike Rice and Rick Stewart in person. I brought with me witnesses who saw this happen and all confirmed the car didn't budge. I even brought the person who I raced with me (happened to be my father) and we all agreed to a re-run. Rice and Stewart said they've seen this before and called it a shallow stage red. They say the car rocks backwards out of the beam and turns on the red. End of story.

They would not allow a re-run even though both competitors agreed to it. They said there decision was final as this happened before and they NEVER allow re-runs in these situations.

After the video of the run was posted a few days later, I emailed Mike Rice showing the video that was posted on this forum. Here's the link to the video and the run is right at 19:00:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9h_IGDhxxs"]2011 NHRA Winternationals Super Stock Round 1 - YouTube[/ame]

Here's his response:

It is too hard to see in the video. The shallow stage deal is very real, especially without the StageLoc program. The car doesn’t have to move, just the change in tire pressure when on the brake or two step can be enough to rock out of the beams. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what happened to you at Pomona. You may not physically see or feel car move, but the beams are so sensitive that it happens. You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last.

When the system red-lights, it locks our both the pre-stage and stage beams, which is why both go out. When system resets, it allows them to come back on.

Mike

The best part of that email is "You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last."

I am emailing Mike now asking why their decision was different in this situation than in an identical situation. I will let you all know his response.

P.S. Anyone else wonder why Jimmy's car leaves when the last bulb never came on? It's like he wasn't even looking at the bottom bulb. I wonder how you can legally get your car to delay enough to leave off the top bulb like that...

02-18-2013, 10:53 AM	#1
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! Note that the pre-stage and stage bulbs not only go out, but they STAY out, even with the car sitting there. That wasn't a flicker. How long was the camera flash? __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

02-18-2013, 11:44 AM	#2
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! If that had been me sitting there it would have been over. I wouldn't have gotten a re-run. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

02-18-2013, 12:22 PM	#3
sammy pizzolato Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: houma louisiana Posts: 432 Likes: 52 Liked 56 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! i am with you ed.if that would have been me or you the race would have been over.don't get me wrong i like jimmy and his dad but if you watch the pic on the starting line when jimmy's car red lighted the stage beams go out at the same time the red light came on.mike got a raw deal on that race.they should have never re run that race.watch the vid.and you be the judge.

02-18-2013, 01:45 PM	#6
KRatcliff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 765 Likes: 75 Liked 524 Times in 141 Posts	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! I feel for Mike, but at the end of the day he still has Paula. There are far worse outcomes.

02-18-2013, 02:53 PM	#9
Brian VP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 144 Likes: 0 Liked 8 Times in 1 Post	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! And after thinking about it and watching it again. The stage and pre-stage lights never even came back on when he rolled through with the REAR TIRES! There was definately a glitch in the system and it was not caused by something on the outside like a flash. __________________ Brian Van Poppel 1682 SS

02-18-2013, 03:35 PM	#10
Racin Mason Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 58 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mike Cotten you are the MAN! This exact same thing happened to me at the Winternationals 2 years ago, but with a very different decision from Mike Rice and company. Same left hand lane. The red light came on when the 2nd yellow came on just like this run. The only difference is when I saw the red light come on, I stayed put and never moved. When the red light came on BOTH the pre-stage and stage lights went out just like this run. When the tree reset BOTH the pre-stage and stage were lit proving the car didn't move. I went up to the tower and argued this with Mike Rice and Rick Stewart in person. I brought with me witnesses who saw this happen and all confirmed the car didn't budge. I even brought the person who I raced with me (happened to be my father) and we all agreed to a re-run. Rice and Stewart said they've seen this before and called it a shallow stage red. They say the car rocks backwards out of the beam and turns on the red. End of story. They would not allow a re-run even though both competitors agreed to it. They said there decision was final as this happened before and they NEVER allow re-runs in these situations. After the video of the run was posted a few days later, I emailed Mike Rice showing the video that was posted on this forum. Here's the link to the video and the run is right at 19:00: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9h_IGDhxxs"]2011 NHRA Winternationals Super Stock Round 1 - YouTube[/ame] Here's his response: It is too hard to see in the video. The shallow stage deal is very real, especially without the StageLoc program. The car doesn’t have to move, just the change in tire pressure when on the brake or two step can be enough to rock out of the beams. There is no doubt in my mind that this is what happened to you at Pomona. You may not physically see or feel car move, but the beams are so sensitive that it happens. You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last. When the system red-lights, it locks our both the pre-stage and stage beams, which is why both go out. When system resets, it allows them to come back on. Mike The best part of that email is "You are not the first that it has happened too and certainly won’t be the last." I am emailing Mike now asking why their decision was different in this situation than in an identical situation. I will let you all know his response. P.S. Anyone else wonder why Jimmy's car leaves when the last bulb never came on? It's like he wasn't even looking at the bottom bulb. I wonder how you can legally get your car to delay enough to leave off the top bulb like that...