How competitive are you?

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by RonTheAnnouncer

IHRA tried something like that in the pre-Bader years. Got rid of Stock, Superstock, Modified, etc, and made .90 classes from 7.90 to 12.90. It didn't go so well in the end. If you are talking true "heads up" no breakout racing, then each class will become the playground of maybe 1/2 dozen cars, and the rest of the guys will park their cars or go buy a boat or take up golf.

That was during the "Little Billy" Meyer's rein.....

[Dave Ribeiro]

John, Bob,Ron......and everyone else ...

History does try to repeat ..... We have enough rules & changes, let's enforce the ones we have first ... Let's just Race ....

[Dick Butler]

Just a series of questions because I am still interested in trying to help with a track which is finding Heads up attracts spectators. I am trying to substitute NHRA class cars into their program for the street racers so NHRA racers would have a alternative place to race and maybe it would spread. How about TOP/SS cars or TOP/STK cars with factored in New cars?or just new mustang meets? Or Camaro meet?

[randy wilson]

The question should be, "Why are drag racers scared of true racing with rules, but circle track racers are not"? "Why are spec heads accepted in circle track, but not drag racing?" "Why do the circle track guys draw crowds of 1500 a weekend, at the local level, but bracket racing draws 3?" We truly have taken the crowd appeal out of drag racing. The truth hurts. I would race in a heads-up affordable format.

[Randall Klein]

Heads up and affordable are incompatible.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

The question should be, "Why are drag racers scared of true racing with rules, but circle track racers are not"? "Why are spec heads accepted in circle track, but not drag racing?" "Why do the circle track guys draw crowds of 1500 a weekend, at the local level, but bracket racing draws 3?" We truly have taken the crowd appeal out of drag racing. The truth hurts. I would race in a heads-up affordable format.

We're not "scared" of "spec" anything. The big difference between circle track and drag racing is the difference in the amount of teardowns that would be needed. Ay any given circle track on any given Friday night, you've got what, 4 or 5 different classes of which maybe 2 need to be torn down. NHRA had dozens of classes and the skilled manpower needed just isn't there. Circle tracks have "claimers" too! Now I'd love to see that in a "heads-up" format! I think that I'd do pretty well.

[D.Johns]

Why do the circle track guys draw crowds? Lots of chances for accidents and drama in the pits. There is a race nearly every weekend with the same local racers in a span of only a few hours drive. The racers friends and family and cousins are involved and everyone knows each other. Everyone gets together to have a good time and drink some beer and hang out. Drama between drivers and families can help add to the draw sometimes. Everybody pretty much knows everyone else so it's just a bunch of good ole boys.

One of the things I love about drag racing is the competitiveness and ingenuity of racers and builders. To me that's the most fun is thinking outside of the box to find an edge on the competition. Wether it's in HP or chassis.

Heads up never ends cheaply. It almost always starts with a racers sounding like baby chicks "cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap". Racing starts competitive people forge their way to the top and spend more then the next guy for R&D. You have spec engines? Fine one of the most expensive part is now cheaper (except some would say in drag racing HP is king and what it's all about so you are neutering the very core SOME may say) Besides there will still be people that will do the R&D for the chassis and do all the testing etc... Then the argument between the "have's" and the "have not's" will continue. The only way you can keep the cost low is sealed everything with no tweaking or testing. Like go carts at the local fun zone. No body sits and watches those for fun just stand in line waiting their turn to race another person(s).

It's a viscous cycle. Cheap cheap cheap...new class....happiness...competitiveness....dominance. ...evoulution.....new racers have a tough time jumping into the class to compete with the veterans that have been in the class since inception......complaining ....car counts lower.....more complaining...cheap cheap cheap....creative destruction old class dies new class is born.

[randy wilson]

The reason circle track draws crowds, is the same reason Eddyville drew crowds before 1980. Actual racing. I was there in 79, and I was there in 80. Pro stock is unbelievably expensive. Just like comp, and others. No one has tried to limit the head, in either pro stock, top stock, etc. Drag racing should have never allowed computers, or in my opinion, clutchless trans. All take the driving out of the equation. I know I'm probably flogging a dead horse, but local drag racing needs a shot in the arm. Let's look at some scenarios, shall we. Pro stock, $125,000 chassis, $125,000 motor, $250,000 misc. Comp, basically the same. SS, $50,000 car, $35,000 engine, $10,000 trans, $100,000 misc. Spec, heads, $1,700 new, short block, the best, $7,500, Trans, $3,500, clutch, single disc, $1,800. car, 72 and older, $25,000. All this, and 1\3 the price of SS. The head company could police the head, just like they police it at Knoxville. No computers allowed. How would anyone run away with it. Have a $500 head exchange only. No one will have an advantage under those simple rules. I don't see why the HRA's haven't tried it. I know one thing, what they're doing now is not drawing spectators. And the new car classes are all right, but still expensive, and no one knows their limits. Anyone afraid of a well policed spec class must have other issues. Don't let it get out of hand, and it won't. Have a $1,000 fine for any, and all infractions.

[Rusty Davenport]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Just a series of questions because I am still interested in trying to help with a track which is finding Heads up attracts spectators. I am trying to substitute NHRA class cars into their program for the street racers so NHRA racers would have a alternative place to race and maybe it would spread. How about TOP/SS cars or TOP/STK cars with factored in New cars?or just new mustang meets? Or Camaro meet?

There is not enough interest in motor sports from generation Y and Z to create anything. They want to sit on their *** and press their thumbs. Give it up guys and make the best of right now......this is it.......race for now and enjoy it as it is.

[Michael Beard]

Sitting in the stands, after the fuel cars run about half seats go empty for Pro Stock. More leave when the alky cars come up. When the throttle stop cars come up nearly everybody leaves. I'm surprised how few watch Comp. I love Comp, but more money than I'm willing to spend here at the end. Some come back for Comp, Stk & SS, but not many. I've seen guys post about how excited spectators get when a nine second car is chasing down a fifteen second car, but that's only in their minds. Almost nobody watches us do anything.

Everyone's seen that happen. What I have ALSO seen is thousands upon thousands of fans stay and watch all of the sportsman classes at a national event at Norwalk. I have ALSO seen the stands empty out during the sportsman classes at a national event at Norwalk. Yet another year, I saw thousands upon thousands of fans stay and watch all of the sportsman classes at a national event at Norwalk. What was the difference? At some events, the announcer TOLD the fans: Okay, time to get up, buy a hot dog, and go back in the pits to watch the Pros work. (Thereby creating a logjam at the concession stand, restrooms, and in the pits) Other times, the announcer explained the sportsman action people were seeing, and many stayed and enjoyed it. There always a segment that wants to go eat or watch the Pros, but if you just let them go when *they* want to, the lines and congestion stay more manageable. My first year working for IHRA, I was manually posting DRC-provided results on IHRA.com from the track office, and when I had a break, I'd go sit up in the stands, watch, and more importantly, LISTEN. People were interested in what they were seeing -- they just had a lot of questions. Stuff we take for granted anymore like "What are they spinning their tires in?" Once I started answering questions, everyone within earshot was asking questions about 'how does this work?' and 'what if this?'

If you advertise a race as "Show starts at 6:00PM!", then guess what, people are going to think the show starts at 6:00PM. If you tell them there's an incredible rolling car show going on all day long and educate them about what they're seeing, a lot of people will come, watch, and enjoy. If you tell them to leave, go buy a hot dog, and watch the Pros in the pits, then that's what they're going to do. I've seen it happen both ways.

Since I was a kid, all I've heard is "there's no kids coming into the sport, it's dying". There are dozens of kids coming into the sport at any given time at podunk little Beaver Springs Dragway alone, who bothers to market to them. Then you hear say "People can't understand bracket racing." Think about that for a second. Do you know how ridiculous that is? They're called rules (and there aren't very many of them). There are a massively larger set of rules in football, baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. If people know what the rules are, this is NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. It just needs explained. Make someone watch any game with no knowledge of the rules and without telling them what's going on, and they're likely to get bored or frustrated.