Junior Stock vs IHRA Pure Stock

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Man, Alan, that's cold! LOL
Stock & Super Stock has been populated by guys that live to make their cars faster since I started racing in 1961. Then bracket racing came along, that is where most of the guys that couldn't keep up moved. Most of the faster guys have the money to do it, and most run the higher classes. Many are capable of doing their own engines, etc. Should not be too much of a problem in the lower classes, I wouldn't think.

I sure wouldn't think anybody would take a second mortgage on their home to race. LOL

We do have the problem of check book racers buying the new bogus cars with the funny HP ratings, but probably not in R/SA.

Ed:
There's not alot of the class racers mortgaging their future for 15 minutes of fame.

I admire and respect the racers that slowly work their way up with hard work. I was referring to the newbies that burst onto the scene, spend a wad of cash to run at the top, and within a few years they are filing for bankrupcy.

I saw alot this with the NMRA about 10 years ago. I couldn't figure out how the 20 and 30 something year old guys were getting their money for the fancy rigs and 100K race cars.
Come to find out they were financing their hobby. Now that's insane !

[Ed Wright]

Alan, walk through the staging lanes at an NHRA points race or national event. You won't find a whole lot of brown hair.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Alan, walk through the staging lanes at an NHRA points race or national event. You won't find a whole lot of brown hair.

For sure.
I wonder what the class racing will be like 10 years from now.

When I first walked thru the pits at the 1983 Winternationals I was a young 21 yr. old fresh out of the Marines.
I was in awe of the Stockers and Super Stockers.
I knew right then I wanted to run Stock Eliminator.

It only took me 29 years to be able to finially run a car in Stock...LOL

[brent flynn]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Alan, walk through the staging lanes at an NHRA points race or national event. You won't find a whole lot of brown hair.

Ive got brown hair...hehe... Im gonna do it old school and see what i can accomplish... im even gonna use a Dually(1988) and an open trailer!
Gonna do my best to keep the spirit of Stock alive...WHy not? ...Somebody's gotta do it... hehe

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

So Dan, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel why don't you just build a lower classed Stocker, call it a Jr Stocker and call it a day? I truly do believe that a car like my gold Nova IS a Jr Stocker. As a matter of fact, a famous husband and wife Jr Stock team borrowed it to do some nostalgia racing and are having a blast!
I remember being a kid and trying to figure out the whole Jr Stock thing and I can tell you that it wasn't easy or cheap and it was VERY time consuming.
What I'm getting at is if it looks like a Jr Stocker and sounds like a Jr Stocker, it's a Duck right?

Billy, I have been running Stock since 19(and oh)72.
Started with a 64 Impala SS, then 68 GTO and then bought Bob LaSala 1969 Impala.
It is going though a full frame off restoration actually 3rd rebuild.
Been picking Bob Benders mind on what he has done to his ride.

Actually won Stock at Commerce in 1980 and NHRA Points Meet at Moroso in 1983 then had to leave travel racing for while.

In the meantime running PS with the 95 Impala SS.
Been racing as a Bolt On Racer with ECIRS for 10+ years.

The engine had 190K miles, been 13.30's so it was a natural fit for PS.
Had Jeff Warren build a Legal engine, cars was aleady class legal.

Things like a divorce, new jobs, new wife and kid and starting an IT Business sort of slowed things up.

Being a business guy always thinking about business, marketing, ideas.
Example, I played soccer in Central Florida, when I moved back to South Florida I could not find or start a team.
I did play pick up games with ABB, Motorola, Bendix and Racal Milgo.
So I started a Corporate Soccer league for them that is going strong today.

My idea was basically changing the name Pure Stock to Junior Stock.
Pure Stock in Roundy racing has their concept and image,
Junior Stock has a different but meaningful image for drag racing.

Then there is the complaining about the cost of Stock.
Especially the rule you have to use the track fuel.
Already got a few rules changed at NHRA and IHRA.

For example if IHRA would allow integrated Electric Water Pumps more Stockers could naturally move to Pure Stock err Junior Stock .

Dan

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Billy, I have been running Stock since 19(and oh)72.
Started with a 64 Impala SS, then 68 GTO and then bought Bob LaSala 1969 Impala.
It is going though a full frame off restoration actually 3rd rebuild.
Been picking Bob Benders mind on what he has done to his ride.

Actually won Stock at Commerce in 1980 and NHRA Points Meet at Moroso in 1983 then had to leave travel racing for while.

In the meantime running PS with the 95 Impala SS.
Been racing as a Bolt On Racer with ECIRS for 10+ years.

The engine had 190K miles, been 13.30's so it was a natural fit for PS.
Had Jeff Warren build a Legal engine, cars was aleady class legal.

Things like a divorce, new jobs, new wife and kid and starting an IT Business sort of slowed things up.

Being a business guy always thinking about business, marketing, ideas.
Example, I played soccer in Central Florida, when I moved back to South Florida I could not find or start a team.
I did play pick up games with ABB, Motorola, Bendix and Racal Milgo.
So I started a Corporate Soccer league for them that is going strong today.

My idea was basically changing the name Pure Stock to Junior Stock.
Pure Stock in Roundy racing has their concept and image,
Junior Stock has a different but meaningful image for drag racing.

Then there is the complaining about the cost of Stock.
Especially the rule you have to use the track fuel.
Already got a few rules changed at NHRA and IHRA.

For example if IHRA would allow integrated Electric Water Pumps more Stockers could naturally move to Pure Stock err Junior Stock .

Dan

There you go......You are already trying to change the rules of the class. More money ! Elec. water pumps and drives were NOT used in the Jr. stock days. If the water pump drives are used then the index's should be lowered at min. a full tenth as thats what they are worth. Thats one reason why stock is so screwed up and expensive today. Rule change after rule change of some sort happening almost every week happening all over again. Get the name changed if thats what makes you happy but leave the up grading the rules to the IHRA or run a so called "stocker". IHRA used to have the two seperated many years ago but due to lack of participation the pure? stockers were included to give them a place to run instead of outlawing a class of racers.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

There you go......You are already trying to change the rules of the class. More money ! Elec. water pumps and drives were NOT used in the Jr. stock days. If the water pump drives are used then the index's should be lowered at min. a full tenth as thats what they are worth. Thats one reason why stock is so screwed up and expensive today. Rule change after rule change of some sort happening almost every week happening all over again. Get the name changed if thats what makes you happy but leave the up grading the rules to the IHRA or run a so called "stocker". IHRA used to have the two seperated many years ago but due to lack of participation the pure? stockers were included to give them a place to run instead of outlawing a class of racers.

OK I understand that..but we are always spending money on our beests.

But on my car, we are not allowed to use an Electric Water Pump but Stockers do.
Cool down is a pain and it would be a natural upgrade.

However allowing them would not be an expense for a Stocker to run PS.
Otherwise you would have to put a stock one on your car.
Just thinking of a natural way to allow a car to move in between.

The advantage for LT 1 engines is that the Water Pump Motors integrate with the WP and reliable to drive to the track.
Which is one feature PS is all about.

Do not think the Index would need to change, do not think there is a tenth. But if that is the common experience then so be it.

FWIW it would be a more reliable set up to manage heat making PS equally competitive to Stockers.

BTW hope your Thanksgiving was fun.

D

[X-TECH MAN]

It dosent matter to me anymore anyway. I find that street rodding is more fun these days but maybe not as exciting as a high RPM launch. Just pointing out how some want to keep "Upgrading" things until you have what you have in todays stock elim. Now you have cars that were never lisenced or titled for the street running in the 8's with blowers !. Todays stockers are much wilder than the S/S cars of yesterday. Now you can even have aftermarket racing seats so other than the 9 inch tire your stuck with you have the SUPER STOCK LOOK of today.
Best way to go about it would be to contact IHRA's Mike Baker and get a list of pure stockers that have maintained their membership and car number the last few years and take a vote on who and how many want to up grade. Present it to Mike Baker and see how it goes. When I was racing Jr. stock until 1972 and later in S/S I found the elec waterpump drive to be worth a min of .10 to .12 after they were allowed on my 7200 RPM S/S (late 70's era) Chevy small block. Of course in todays S/S the same combo turns in excess of 9000 RPM due to "UpGrading. The higher the RPM range the more you gain due to the amount of HP required to turn the pump and push the water. That was with a water pump that had every other vane ground off to cut the resistance. You still need to have the specs for spring pressures, duration and overlap on the later combos which IHRA does not have for most if the class is to be what its supposed to be plus the knowledgeable tech crew required to check a cam and spring pressures at open and closed heights. Best way out is to eliminate the pure stocks all together and make them all "stockers". To much cheating going on anyway and not enough people to keep track of whats going on. Thats how the any torque converter and reground cams came to be in factory stock (or pure stock as its now called). Converters could be made by competent manufactures to make them do whatever was needed. It was hell checking the OEM cam shaft in some combos. Not enough hours in a week much less on a Friday or Sat, evening. Been there and done that.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by brent flynn

Ive got brown hair...hehe... Im gonna do it old school and see what i can accomplish... im even gonna use a Dually(1988) and an open trailer!
Gonna do my best to keep the spirit of Stock alive...WHy not? ...Somebody's gotta do it... hehe

I see I'm not the only one going old school.
Been running around with my 28 year old single wheel c.c. this year pulling my $ 2,500 cargo trailer. It's not even a real car hauler, but it works.
I would love to have a newer dually, but have decided to spend the money for now to build another '95 Mustang GT to run in P/SA.
90 % of the parts on that car will be used.

Anyone got a used 5.0 Stocker cam ?

[brent flynn]

this is my rig... got about 4000.00 in the truck... gave 2000.00 for the trailer in 2003.... They serve me well... i have generators and awnings....what more does a guy need? hehe...also, a 4 person tent!