New cars, old cars and horsepower ratings.

[Jeff Lee]

Could we stay focused on the subject? Start a thread in tech about tunning your carbs or FI. This thread is supposed to revolve about ideas to keep the older cars in attendance.
Right, wrong or indifferent to NHRA adding the Super Cars, they are here to stay. I firmly believe (again, right or wrong, that's my opinion) NHRA doesn't want S/SS to go away, nor do I believe they want to see the "traditional" cars to fade away. I'm of the opinion NHRA is somewhat concerned about the top heaviness of the Super Cars and are open to debate amongst the S/SS committee to find a reasonable solution. As stated earlier, no solution is foolproof but I believe something can be worked out which will benefit many.
Logistically, I can't see any way NHRA would want to ad another class such as Stock GT to park, much less police.
I believe the factories are behind seeing more heads up runs and do not like the combo races based on my own conversations and also hearsay.
All issues combined can be resolved with combining sticks and autos & lowering the HP of the older vehicles. Things like Stick or auto HP standards can be worked out (those I've spoken to & myself don't care which HP is used or split the difference) and a 5% drop in HP would find a lot of cars approximately 150#'s lighter.
To summarize, the face of Stock doesn't change with HP changes. It's easy & across the board.
Combining sticks and autos leads to more heads up runs and most likely an increase in competition and less lifting.
For it or against it, let your representatives know your thoughts.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Could we stay focused on the subject? Start a thread in tech about tunning your carbs or FI. This thread is supposed to revolve about ideas to keep the older cars in attendance.
Right, wrong or indifferent to NHRA adding the Super Cars, they are here to stay. I firmly believe (again, right or wrong, that's my opinion) NHRA doesn't want S/SS to go away, nor do I believe they want to see the "traditional" cars to fade away. I'm of the opinion NHRA is somewhat concerned about the top heaviness of the Super Cars and are open to debate amongst the S/SS committee to find a reasonable solution. As stated earlier, no solution is foolproof but I believe something can be worked out which will benefit many.
Logistically, I can't see any way NHRA would want to ad another class such as Stock GT to park, much less police.
I believe the factories are behind seeing more heads up runs and do not like the combo races based on my own conversations and also hearsay.
All issues combined can be resolved with combining sticks and autos & lowering the HP of the older vehicles. Things like Stick or auto HP standards can be worked out (those I've spoken to & myself don't care which HP is used or split the difference) and a 5% drop in HP would find a lot of cars approximately 150#'s lighter.
To summarize, the face of Stock doesn't change with HP changes. It's easy & across the board.
Combining sticks and autos leads to more heads up runs and most likely an increase in competition and less lifting.
For it or against it, let your representatives know your thoughts.

Jeff,

Why tamper with the maybe 4000+ combos that the older cars represent, just change the factors on the new cars, and you only have to deal with about 25-30 combos. Limiting the factory engine combo game would help.... some of those Ford combos are actually factory GT/Stock cars already (a 352 or 428 Mustang???). Making the adjustments where the problem is, is the way to go

[M Brand 505B]

To stay on point....

All "production" cars post 2008 need to have their own class designations. When the fastest pre 2008 cars are being outran by 0.20+ there is an issue!

Everyone who has a stocker or superstocker should be able to somewhat agree that having the big three making production race cars is good for the sport. But with the HP ratings they've been given its unfair for us to compete against them on a heads up basis.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by M Brand 505B

To stay on point....

All "production" cars post 2008 need to have their own class designations. When the fastest pre 2008 cars are being outran by 0.20+ there is an issue!

Everyone who has a stocker or superstocker should be able to somewhat agree that having the big three making production race cars is good for the sport. But with the HP ratings they've been given its unfair for us to compete against them on a heads up basis.

AMEN... we keep coming to the same conclusion. The BIG problem is the HP factor for the newer cars.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Marvin Robinson

AMEN... we keep coming to the same conclusion. The BIG problem is the HP factor for the newer cars.

If factoring the "older" cars is as easy as Jeff describes in his following post, lighten 'em up to even up the competition, and I think most of the S/SS community would be behind this move. Fair heads up runs is what we're after.....

[Lew Silverman]

Any idea how long everyone thinks the AHFS is going to fix the under-rated New Cars?

If the New Cars have us covered by so much, why would they need to run so quick as to trigger an AHFS review?

So unless they have to run heads-up, and someone wants to make a performance statement, how long until the AHFS "works"?

Lew

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Marvin Robinson

Jeff,

Why tamper with the maybe 4000+ combos that the older cars represent, just change the factors on the new cars, and you only have to deal with about 25-30 combos. Limiting the factory engine combo game would help.... some of those Ford combos are actually factory GT/Stock cars already (a 352 or 428 Mustang???). Making the adjustments where the problem is, is the way to go

As I stated, NHRA is not going to step on the toes of the OEM and the new Super Cars. Again, that is my opinion. Like it or not, the AHFS is the platform these cars were built on and approved by NHRA. The OEM's submitted some HP figures and NHRA rejected some and negotiated on the others. I can't see NHRA doing anything on these cars other than allowing the AHFS to do it's job.
A keystroke will reduce the HP on the older cars. Me, personally, it wouldn't matter what defines "older" cars. I mentioned previously 1992 (Pre-LT-1 SBC) but if 2008 (First Drag-Paks), fine. Either 1992 or 2008 seems reasonable to me.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

As I stated, NHRA is not going to step on the toes of the OEM and the new Super Cars. Again, that is my opinion. Like it or not, the AHFS is the platform these cars were built on and approved by NHRA. The OEM's submitted some HP figures and NHRA rejected some and negotiated on the others. I can't see NHRA doing anything on these cars other than allowing the AHFS to do it's job.
A keystroke will reduce the HP on the older cars. Me, personally, it wouldn't matter what defines "older" cars. I mentioned previously 1992 (Pre-LT-1 SBC) but if 2008 (First Drag-Paks), fine. Either 1992 or 2008 seems reasonable to me.

Jeff, if it's that easy to re factor the older cars, that would be the preferable route, everyone gets lighter, and maybe a little less breakage, too. I personally would welcome the opportunity for new/old to race heads up in a fair contest.

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Could we stay focused on the subject? Start a thread in tech about tunning your carbs or FI. This thread is supposed to revolve about ideas to keep the older cars in attendance.
Right, wrong or indifferent to NHRA adding the Super Cars, they are here to stay. I firmly believe (again, right or wrong, that's my opinion) NHRA doesn't want S/SS to go away, nor do I believe they want to see the "traditional" cars to fade away. I'm of the opinion NHRA is somewhat concerned about the top heaviness of the Super Cars and are open to debate amongst the S/SS committee to find a reasonable solution. As stated earlier, no solution is foolproof but I believe something can be worked out which will benefit many.
Logistically, I can't see any way NHRA would want to ad another class such as Stock GT to park, much less police.
I believe the factories are behind seeing more heads up runs and do not like the combo races based on my own conversations and also hearsay.
All issues combined can be resolved with combining sticks and autos & lowering the HP of the older vehicles. Things like Stick or auto HP standards can be worked out (those I've spoken to & myself don't care which HP is used or split the difference) and a 5% drop in HP would find a lot of cars approximately 150#'s lighter.
To summarize, the face of Stock doesn't change with HP changes. It's easy & across the board.
Combining sticks and autos leads to more heads up runs and most likely an increase in competition and less lifting.
For it or against it, let your representatives know your thoughts.

Jeff, I mostly agree, but I think adding HP to the newer cars is a far simpler, easier and fair way to balance, compared to making changes to hundreds of older cars (although i would LOVE to take wt out of my F/SA). It might work if the percentage was applied universally to all older cars, but that might not be fair. Combining sticks/autos together would make for larger classes in runoffs, a good idea if the proper adjustments are made for the two... maybe we can get a consensus on that and move forward with it. How effectively can this be worked thru the current committee(s), or do we need to develop a new forum to get the relevant parties working together?

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Marvin Robinson

but I think adding HP to the newer cars is a far simpler, easier and fair way to balance, compared to making changes to hundreds of older cars

If NHRA adds HP to the newer combos(without the AHFS) it will push the newer combos into a lesser amount of classes and for some combos right out of Stock into SS. The manufacturers want to be in as many classes as they can be, not just the top 1 or 2.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any changes.