The damage recently done

[Dwight Southerland]

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . .

The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example)

I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are.

And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

[Paul Wong]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords, or the current D4B Edlebrock manifold for a 273 MoPar, or the F5WE heads for the 428 CJs, or Edelbrock heads/World Products/Batten/Indy/Canfield heads for everything, or the NASCAR hemi cars, or open chamber aluminum heads for all '66-'71 high perf big block Chevrolets, or 780 Holley carbs on 390 Fords, or . . . . .

The '71-'72 Clevelands ALL got the aluminum manifold and 780 Holleys, not just the CJ and Boss. Have you ever seen a conocurs Mustang with a Holley carb and aluminum manifold?? No, because they weren't made. (Not picking on the Fords; just an example)

I have seen the time when I would be right there beside you waving the banner for purity, but I believe that's a waste of time. As a good friend of mine who was the second best tech man I have ever known told me once, "If it passes tech, it's legal. That doesn't mean it is 'stock'. What's legal is what is in the book." That's where we are.

And what about the current offerings from the big three? Paper engines, paper cars, paper power ratings.

Dwight,

There has been some bogus stuff before, but this is by and far as bogus as it gets. I am glad I am knocking things off my bucket list with NHRA as fast as I can, becasue this will be a joke bracket race soon. The 273 still has to use a correct cam and carb. If I had a .477 cam and a 780 holley you would see an OLD 10 second K/S car.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Paul Wong

Dwight,

There has been some bogus stuff before, but this is by and far as bogus as it gets. I am glad I am knocking things off my bucket list with NHRA as fast as I can, becasue this will be a joke bracket race soon. The 273 still has to use a correct cam and carb. If I had a .477 cam and a 780 holley you would see an OLD 10 second K/S car.

I thought the .529 cam for the FE fords was bad. Then the 850 carb, flat top pistons and CJ heads for a '67 Shelby was worse. Then the NASCAR hemi (?!) with a drag race body package?? Aluminum open chamber heads on a '65 Impala? It's all bogus, and as bogus as it gets. This round is no different. But, thanks for the AHFS becasue it will save us, right??

[Mike Gray]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Billy -
Not much different than the Shelby specs fiasco that we all went through for the '67 428s, or the .529 cam for the FE Fords,.

I think it's .527 lift, Let's not get carried away!

[Jeff Lee]

I've not been ignoring this. Just working.

As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs.

No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there.

And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago.

NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives.

And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide.

I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right.

And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea.

Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I've not been ignoring this. Just working.

As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs.

No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there.

And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago.

NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives.

And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide.

I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right.

And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea.

Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS.

So who do I need to talk to at NHRA about getting some "enhancements" for my D/SA car?

Btw, which AMCs were the bigger cam, aluminum manifold, and 780 holley installed on from the factory, I never got an answer to that question.

[Dwight Southerland]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

Btw, which AMCs were the bigger cam, aluminum manifold, and 780 holley installed on from the factory, I never got an answer to that question.

They were assembled by the same people who put those aluminum heads on that 1965 Impala.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I've not been ignoring this. Just working.

As pointed out, there is a book full of allowable items in S/SS that some find objectionable. Some, but not nearly all, of it already pointed out on this thread. When I last raced in D/S, I raced against some pretty good running 390 Mustangs and the Boss 351 of Rob Youngblood. The Boss 351 had a 780 Holley in lieu of the factory 4300D. The 390 Mustang had a 735 Holley instead of the 600 Holley on top of a Police Interceptor aluminum hi-rise instead of the flat cast iron unit. And it got a 8 qt oil pan. But who cares, it's in the books and the books allow everybody access so you can build any car you want with parts that suit your needs.

No need to go look at the '60's Shelby offerings that have popped up lately, it's been discussed to death here. Same with 383 two four barrels, hi-compression Pontiac's, 327 intakes on 283's, Oldsmobile cams, you name it, it's out there.

And Billy, I don't know if you race IHRA but I do think it's in your area of the country so I'm assuming you do. But had you been looking, you might have found IHRA accepted the Holley for Stock on AMC about 9 years ago.

NHRA just now put it in the books. And AMC themselves submitted the larger cam to NHRA DECADES ago. I brought it up and they found it in their archives.

And Blue Oval, you're right. It was in the AMA specifications. A bunch of you critics are probably to young to know what that's all about. The OEM submitted specifications to the AMA about everything (wheel cylinder volume, spring weight for ignition points, trunk volume, etc., etc., etc.).NHRA used AMA specifications as a source guide.

I have been dealing with NHRA on this for 12 years. I've been told everything I submitted was what they wanted to see and then told "no" for no explainable reason. I've been told to get this or that and "were good to go" then told no. I never threatened to use an attorney and wouldn't know any of the NHRA tech officials if they showed up at my door this afternoon. I just never gave up because I had the documentation and I knew it was right.

And for "Super Trick", I raced D/S last about 7 years ago. My ET's were 10.55-10.65 here in Arizona; never made it to a sea level track. And that was with a .457" cam, cast iron intake and 4300 Autolite. I'd suggest if you have a comparable D/S or D/SA car, you should be able to do better with 7 years in advancements. But I doubt it.

For the record, I've posted on this site more than once LT-1 '70 Nova's should be allowed in S/SS. I've also stated I would love to see factory approved parts allowed by all makes. I'd personally love to see (maybe a separate class called "Trans Am Stock") with Cross-Ram '69 Z-28's vs. Cross-Boss Boss 302 Mustangs and Cross-Ram Javelins along with whatever "off road" cam that was available at the time. Stage II Buick's? Heck yea.

Anybody else...build an AMC. I'd love to have some competition. And in the end, I'm sure I'll be quite familiar with the AHFS.

I'll stand by my original post. NHRA has never made such broad sweeping changes to so many combos in one shot ever. PERIOD. If you have the proper paperwork then just post it on here but remember, I've got the books sitting here on the floor so don't try yanking my chain.
And Dwight, OBTW, just for the records, at least Chevy made big blocks with aluminium heads. You show me any AMC V8 with them.
I'm so damned glad that everything I have is so da**ed different that no-one wants to be bothered with it. I guess the new deal now is "well he's cheating so I'm gonna cheat".

[gmonde]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I'll stand by my original post. NHRA has never made such broad sweeping changes to so many combos in one shot ever. PERIOD. If you have the proper paperwork then just post it on here but remember, I've got the books sitting here on the floor so don't try yanking my chain.
And Dwight, OBTW, just for the records, at least Chevy made big blocks with aluminium heads. You show me any AMC V8 with them.
I'm so damned glad that everything I have is so da**ed different that no-one wants to be bothered with it. I guess the new deal now is "well he's cheating so I'm gonna cheat".

hey billy just an fyi we dont need to post anything ,nhra has appoved it and thats the way it is ,if you want to protest it call nhra and bitch to them ,,, i run the car because i like it ,i ran the 4300 carb and the cast iron intake and that has made me a better tuner and let me tell you i have done a ton of work to get (at the time my rebel machine to run 5 under) in good air ,,,sorry you have such a gripe on the combo , we all work hard on the cars we chose ,,, may be you should build an amc and be the hero and go fast ,,,stop bitching ,,,sorry i had to say it gmonde

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by gmonde

hey billy just an fyi we dont need to post anything ,nhra has appoved it and thats the way it is ,if you want to protest it call nhra and bitch to them ,,, i run the car because i like it ,i ran the 4300 carb and the cast iron intake and that has made me a better tuner and let me tell you i have done a ton of work to get (at the time my rebel machine to run 5 under) in good air ,,,sorry you have such a gripe on the combo , we all work hard on the cars we chose ,,, may be you should build an amc and be the hero and go fast ,,,stop bitching ,,,sorry i had to say it gmonde

Now this whole post is just funny.
Fine, don't defend yourself, lies and deceit have no defense.
I will be calling NHRA on Tuesday,what NHRA has done can be un-done. And that's the way it is.
I'm happy for you that running a "different" car made you a better tuner. Welcome to my world. I don't have a gripe with the combo, I have a gripe with the people that totally f**ked up the combo by presenting falsified documents to NHRA to gain an advantage that they didn't deserve so that they didn't all have to work hard on their cars.
Wow, ya hear that eddie? I could build an AMC and be a hero!
If it involved just one combo, maybe I would build it and go all Paul Wong on it but I won't live long enough to build every combo that is affected.
Let me say this again so that it sinks in, EVERY 4V V8 combo from 1966 to 1972 is affected. that's 5 different displacement engines in about a half a dozen body styles, in 7 model years. That's a whole lot of combos.
And everybody bitches about a couple of Mustang combos.
I'm not bitching, you'll know it when I start bitching!