Iron Dukes??

[NWDragracing]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

The NHRA bent over backwards to ensure the success of the Iron Dukes in Modified Eliminator racing in several different ways: They made the Modified Compact a class like Pro Stock... 2,350 pounds and..... 151 cubic inches. No pounds-per-cubic inch. That "formula" just HAPPENED to fit the Iron Duke to a "T." The Ford engine (2,300 c.c.) was only 140 cubic inches and would need to be stroked ($$$$$$$$$$$$) to get the 151 cubic inches, discouraging a lot of potential Ford racers. When you've only got 151 cubic inches to work with, you can't afford to give any of 'em away...

The current rule book page, at the time, that described the requirements for a legal engine in a Modified Compact-classed race car, stipulated that the car had to have the original engine. The Pontiac T-1000 was a re-badged Chevy Chevette, a car that had its own engine. The T-1000 that Larry Nelson used to dominate the class never came with an Iron Duke, or anything like it. It came with a Chevette engine.

NHRA gave Pontiac the T-1000/Iron Duke combination under the "corporate engine" umbrella. Nobody else had a chance.

Another factory "GIMMEE."

No disrespect to Larry Nelson; he just took advantage of what was legal. Smart!!!

The same happened when the engine was used in a Firebird in Modified Compact. The rules stipulated "No Sports Cars Allowed".

I called Danny and and asked him if someone could run certain body styles in the class and he said "No" because they were Sports Cars.

So when I brought up the Firebird body, he said it was not a Sports Car; that the only Sports car GM had was the Corvette...

[Ed Wright]

Is a Mustang a sports car?

[goinbroke2]

Nope, pony car.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by goinbroke2

Nope, pony car.

Where do you see the difference?

[Hemi Moose]

The Iron Duke (also called the 2500, 151, Pontiac 2.5, Cross Flow, and Tech IV, though the decal on the air filter assemblies actually reads "4 Tech") was a 2.5 L (150.8 cu in) I4 piston engine. All Iron Dukes were built by Pontiac beginning in 1977 and ending in 1993. After this time, the GM 2.2 L OHV 4-cylinder replaced it across the entire lineup of vehicles that offered it.

This 151 was also used by American Motors (AMC) starting in 1980, as the base engine option in the RWD Spirit and Concord, and continuing in both cars through 1982. The AWD (4x4) Eagle carried the 151 as standard equipment for 1981, and carried it midway through the 1983 model year. It was also available (as the Hurricane) in economy model Jeep CJs. AMC replaced the Iron Duke 2.5L I4 with a 150cid Inline-4 of their own, derived from their evergreen sixes.
The Iron Duke is often confused with Chevrolet's Stovebolt-derived 153 from the 1960s Chevy II, but the engines are entirely different - the Iron Duke's intake manifold is on the passenger side, as opposed to the driver side.
Applications:

• 1977 Pontiac Astre
• 1977–1980 Pontiac Sunbird
• 1978–1980 Chevrolet Monza, Oldsmobile Starfire
• 1980–1982 AMC Concord
• 1980–1982 AMC Spirit
• 1980–1983 Jeep CJ
• 1980–1984 Oldsmobile Omega, Pontiac Phoenix
• 1980–1985 Buick Skylark, Chevrolet Citation
• 1981–1983 AMC Eagle
• 1982–1986 Chevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird
• 1982–1989 Chevrolet Celebrity
• 1982–1991 Pontiac 6000
• 1982–1992 Buick Century, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
• 1984–1988 Pontiac Fiero
• 1985–1987 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, GMC S-15 Jimmy
• 1985–1993 Chevrolet S-10, GMC S-15/Sonoma
• 1985–1990 Chevrolet Astro, GMC Safari
• 1985–1987 Buick Somerset
• 1985–1991 Pontiac Grand Am, Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais
• 1986–1991 Buick Skylark
• 1987–1994 Grumman LLV (USPS delivery vehicle)
• 1990–1992 Chevrolet Lumina

More written here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Iron_Duke_engine

[Hemi Moose]

[norm saibene]

bob wollet was a great guy i use to race ihra with him he almost always qualified number 1 he was a stand up guy have nothing but good to say about him that is a awsome car he has

[Rich Biebel]

Originally Posted by Hemi Moose

The Iron Duke (also called the 2500, 151, Pontiac 2.5, Cross Flow, and Tech IV, though the decal on the air filter assemblies actually reads "4 Tech") was a 2.5 L (150.8 cu in) I4 piston engine. All Iron Dukes were built by Pontiac beginning in 1977 and ending in 1993. After this time, the GM 2.2 L OHV 4-cylinder replaced it across the entire lineup of vehicles that offered it.

This 151 was also used by American Motors (AMC) starting in 1980, as the base engine option in the RWD Spirit and Concord, and continuing in both cars through 1982. The AWD (4x4) Eagle carried the 151 as standard equipment for 1981, and carried it midway through the 1983 model year. It was also available (as the Hurricane) in economy model Jeep CJs. AMC replaced the Iron Duke 2.5L I4 with a 150cid Inline-4 of their own, derived from their evergreen sixes.
The Iron Duke is often confused with Chevrolet's Stovebolt-derived 153 from the 1960s Chevy II, but the engines are entirely different - the Iron Duke's intake manifold is on the passenger side, as opposed to the driver side.
Applications:

• 1977 Pontiac Astre
• 1977–1980 Pontiac Sunbird
• 1978–1980 Chevrolet Monza, Oldsmobile Starfire
• 1980–1982 AMC Concord
• 1980–1982 AMC Spirit
• 1980–1983 Jeep CJ
• 1980–1984 Oldsmobile Omega, Pontiac Phoenix
• 1980–1985 Buick Skylark, Chevrolet Citation
• 1981–1983 AMC Eagle
• 1982–1986 Chevrolet Camaro, Pontiac Firebird
• 1982–1989 Chevrolet Celebrity
• 1982–1991 Pontiac 6000
• 1982–1992 Buick Century, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
• 1984–1988 Pontiac Fiero
• 1985–1987 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, GMC S-15 Jimmy
• 1985–1993 Chevrolet S-10, GMC S-15/Sonoma
• 1985–1990 Chevrolet Astro, GMC Safari
• 1985–1987 Buick Somerset
• 1985–1991 Pontiac Grand Am, Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais
• 1986–1991 Buick Skylark
• 1987–1994 Grumman LLV (USPS delivery vehicle)
• 1990–1992 Chevrolet Lumina

More written here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Iron_Duke_engine

This info is not correct if my memory is any good......The first year Pontiac engines had both intake and exhaust manifolds on the same side of the engine.....drivers side.
The following year the new and improved cross flow head was on that engine. Thats how I recall it and I worked in a Pontiac dealer and worked on those cars regularly.
GM was producing some real junk and as a line mechanic I got to work on all sorts of engineering marvels......

This was the era of "corporate engines under the hood". Engines were calibrated so lean they could barely get out the driveway sometimes without bucking and missing......and my personal favorite....the odd fire Buick V6 3.8....shook so bad they had to add counterweights and soft engine and trans mounts.

I have some very funny stories from my days working on these cars and what we did to try and diagnose and fix some of these cars.

It was a Pontiac-Jeep-Subaru dealership and I worked on them all as an A Tech....

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Where do you see the difference?

Well Ed, the sports cars of the time were tiny european open top cars with 4 wheel independant suspension and the focus was on handling. (triumph/mg's/porche/etc.
While the mustang did compete in some "sporty car" races it was a 2+2 car that handled well (for that time period) and the focus was more on fun and affordability. It was at home on a twisty track but was also home on a dragstrip and had optional v-8 engines strictly for straight line.
Sports cars on the other hand were solely twisty cars and didn't accellerate well enough to compete in drag racing. A 1500lb car with 75hp was great zipping through the S's and switchbacks but laughable on a straightaway or dragstrip.

Now people car them musclecars which isn't right either. Musclecars were cars designed to purely go in a straight line, all muscle. A bigblock chevelle or torino or various hemi's fit that bill.

Camaro's/cuda's&challenger were all pony cars because they were built to fit into the "new" class of vehicle that the mustang started. Mustang, being a horse the class was called "pony".

Semantic's for the most part but the mustang was not intended to be or ever was comparable to a MG or triumph. (the same as a camaro was never meant to be)

Of course this is just my opinion too, the same as me hating imports is my opinion. hehehe

[Ed Wright]

So how could the Firebirds be called sports cars? The NHRA official was correct, GM's only sports car then was the Corvette.