New Ford 5.0 On The Books

[ALMACK]

Well, it appears this 2012 NHRA 302 listed may neither be a Mustang GT engine nor a Boss 4v.

It is possible the engine is a "made up on paper" engine..........according to this board member on Modular Fords: (post # 5)

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...86#post1720886

"It's not a GT or a Boss according to the specs, it's an engine that doesn't exist. Someone goofed. All appearances are that it is the 2011 GT engine other than the piston and exhaust cam specs. I suspect that was the intent, to use that crate engine, much like they did with the 4.6 3V in the CJ previously. But the specs are wrong, not the first time they have submitted incorrect specs and cars got bounced for it previously too.

As listed it is a natural C car. Nothing there about transmissions, so no idea what can be used. Another paper car snuck into the guide, Ford hasn't put a production car in there for years now, just this made up ****. "

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

Well, it appears this 2012 NHRA 302 listed may neither be a Mustang GT engine nor a Boss 4v.

It is possible the engine is a "made up on paper" engine..........according to this board member on Modular Fords: (post # 5)

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...86#post1720886

"It's not a GT or a Boss according to the specs, it's an engine that doesn't exist. Someone goofed. All appearances are that it is the 2011 GT engine other than the piston and exhaust cam specs. I suspect that was the intent, to use that crate engine, much like they did with the 4.6 3V in the CJ previously. But the specs are wrong, not the first time they have submitted incorrect specs and cars got bounced for it previously too.

As listed it is a natural C car. Nothing there about transmissions, so no idea what can be used. Another paper car snuck into the guide, Ford hasn't put a production car in there for years now, just this made up ****. "

Sounds like a "CRATE MOTOR" to me.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Sounds like a "CRATE MOTOR" to me.

LOL at the "crate" nomenclature.

Terry, I would be surprised if anyone can buy that exact engine direct from Ford and delivered complete in a "crate".

[dwydendorf]

Almost everyone I know that runs Stock and Super Stock that builds or has built an engine that takes advantage of the specs that are provided for their respective engines. That means cutting the decks on the blocks close to the minimum specs, cams that are close to the maximum lift, head cc's that are near the minimum in the combustion chamber, ETC. Why would you not expect Ford, Chrysler, and GM to take advantage of the same system that makes the Engine builders build their engines to the specs that give them the advantage? It is the System that is in place through both NHRA and IHRA that makes the manufacturers do what they do. Like it or not it is no different than what all racers do to be competetive.

[Ed Wright]

You don't see the difference between that crap and specs from a production car?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

You don't see the difference between that crap and specs from a production car?

Not many people grasp the concept Ed.

I said two years ago that what would happen is the factories could literally have "paper engines" that they never even had to assemble as prototypes or even make anything but blocks, cranks, heads, and intakes for.

With the new rule, the factories could actually let a racer go through their catalog and create an engine out of part numbers, then the factory can submit the "engine" with an arbitrary low ball power rating.

This new rule means it does not cost the factories more than about $500 to create a "new engine" any time they want one. They pay a guy to fill out some tech sheets and submit them to NHRA. And all they have to do is make ONE change in the cam or piston specs, and it is a different "engine". And they don't even have to make a single part.

Even if NHRA said "send us a piston", the factory could just say "we're buying them from XYZ pistons, we'll have them send you one" and have "XYZ pistons" make a dozen, and submit an "original" and their "race version" to NHRA.

Pandora's box is wide open now. Who knows what will come out next.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Not many people grasp the concept Ed.

I said two years ago that what would happen is the factories could literally have "paper engines" that they never even had to assemble as prototypes or even make anything but blocks, cranks, heads, and intakes for.

With the new rule, the factories could actually let a racer go through their catalog and create an engine out of part numbers, then the factory can submit the "engine" with an arbitrary low ball power rating.

This new rule means it does not cost the factories more than about $500 to create a "new engine" any time they want one. They pay a guy to fill out some tech sheets and submit them to NHRA. And all they have to do is make ONE change in the cam or piston specs, and it is a different "engine". And they don't even have to make a single part.

Even if NHRA said "send us a piston", the factory could just say "we're buying them from XYZ pistons, we'll have them send you one" and have "XYZ pistons" make a dozen, and submit an "original" and their "race version" to NHRA.

Pandora's box is wide open now. Who knows what will come out next.

Alan, I think your pretty dead on with this, however I tend to look at both sides of the argument.
Back "in the day" factories got involved and the war was on. It got so wild they eventually spawned the FX classes then funny car. Very innovative times. For YEARS everybody on here or involved in class racing bemoaned the fact that S/SS is being abandoned and "wouldn't it be awesome if factories got involved again".
Well, they have.
And in a big way.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think you hit it dead on. I only look at the bigger picture and see while there are certainly downfalls with paper cars and engines flying into the guide, there will be other larger benefits. Just being on the radar screen so-to-speak is huge! The fact that they are building cars and engines FOR COMPETITION right at the factory is eye popping if you look back say 10 years ago.
Once the big set ups are commonplace perhaps the smaller combo's/engines will be given more attention too.

The old combo's will be "playing against the house" and we know who wins there....that said though, there still hasn't been a runaway in wins for the new stuff on national or div level.