Where are the lower class cars?

[Richard Grant]

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Richard Grant

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

Richard - Lets try this one item at a time
1) - There are just not enough cars to run class at every national event
2)The .3 reduction was for everyone- not just the lower class cars .
3)Again the factors are for everyone
4)So you want more money with lesser entry fees - how will that work ?
5)You want it both ways - on one hand you say you can't run fast without the factors and on the other you want to run fast without penalty .
6)Fewer tracks and gas prices affect everyone .

And yes , the NHRA ( and any other sanctioning body ) must make wise decisions but they must be good for everyone including them .

Somehow even with writing this there are those who have their own agenda and I feel like I'm pissing in the wind ............pretty strong words even from me !

[Richard Grant]

OK, Jack by the numbers.
1. When I say all classes, I am talking about all Super classes, Super Stock, Stock, etc.
2. Yes, the reduction affected everyone. There are cars in all classes that cannot run the index now that they have been reduced. All I am saying is that reduces the number of racers that can compete. Why would NHRA want to make a change that reduces participation?
3. I agree.
4. I didn't mention more money. Just not raising entry fees.
5. I can run plenty fast enough to run with the new index's. I was pointing out that this is another way that NHRA is reducing participation.
6.Yes
My point was not only aimed at the lower class cars even though this thread is. After the comment about how nhra is nudging more and more racers out of racing, I was pointing out how they are nudging out racers from many areas.
BTY Jack, I don't have a problem with you personally. In the past I supported NHRA every way that I could as you are doing. Have fun, keep racing as long as your finances and health allow. I just wanted to point out how NHRA is hurting itself and many racers with it's decisions.

[Stang_Bang]

IMO, I think the reason you are seeing less and less of these cars is not because of index or entry fees, but because the slower cars are just really hard to win in. These cars are sensitive to wind, DA, humidity etc etc. Plus it is really hard to be consistent on the tree and drive the finish line while 90% of the field has 30+ mph on you! A national event is a big stage with great recognition when you win one, and if you are a competitor that is the goal every time you enter one!!! Racers now are utilizing the best tools to accomplish this feat, and according to statistics having that slow of a S/SS'er your chances of success are not very high. I'm not saying it is impossible, just being real. Stock/Super Stock isnt what it was 15 years ago thanks to $$$ and technology. No disrespect to anyone who has a slower class car, because I give you massive credit for doing it. How hard is it to judge a AA-D/SA in a 14 second car??? Very!!! I hope to see a front wheel win a national again, just so that driver can say he is one of only two people to win a national event in NHRA. I hope I didn't anger anyone, just wanted to share .02

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Stang_Bang

IMO, I think the reason you are seeing less and less of these cars is not because of index or entry fees, but because the slower cars are just really hard to win in. These cars are sensitive to wind, DA, humidity etc etc. Plus it is really hard to be consistent on the tree and drive the finish line while 90% of the field has 30+ mph on you! A national event is a big stage with great recognition when you win one, and if you are a competitor that is the goal every time you enter one!!! Racers now are utilizing the best tools to accomplish this feat, and according to statistics having that slow of a S/SS'er your chances of success are not very high. I'm not saying it is impossible, just being real. Stock/Super Stock isnt what it was 15 years ago thanks to $$$ and technology. No disrespect to anyone who has a slower class car, because I give you massive credit for doing it. How hard is it to judge a AA-D/SA in a 14 second car??? Very!!! I hope to see a front wheel win a national again, just so that driver can say he is one of only two people to win a national event in NHRA. I hope I didn't anger anyone, just wanted to share .02

True very true on all points Stang Bang, which is my motivation for being out there trying to accomplish what will be a monumental feat (when it happens)! I used to be good at racing cars that ran 10-14sec. (when my cars ran 18-22sec.), and I will be that way again (with more seat time, via bracket/class racing)....I mainly need to be a driver more like Jody Lang, but with my car. Somebodies going to do it, and I hope that somebody's me!

No anger here, just more reason to be motivated to get my butt out to the track to do more racing, because 85% + of all of the races I lost were because of poor decision making on my part, or my subpar driving...not the car!

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Richard - Lets try this one item at a time
1) - There are just not enough cars to run class at every national event
2)The .3 reduction was for everyone- not just the lower class cars .
3)Again the factors are for everyone
4)So you want more money with lesser entry fees - how will that work ?
5)You want it both ways - on one hand you say you can't run fast without the factors and on the other you want to run fast without penalty .
6)Fewer tracks and gas prices affect everyone .

And yes , the NHRA ( and any other sanctioning body ) must make wise decisions but they must be good for everyone including them .

Somehow even with writing this there are those who have their own agenda and I feel like I'm pissing in the wind ............pretty strong words even from me !

Ok Jack, I'll give you a different spin on your six responses to Richard:

1. True there aren't enough cars to run class at every national event, but since NHRA has chosen to increase our national event entry fees, membership and competition number fees, and allowed the manufactures to place more restrictions on how contingencies are earned, I'm not suprised as to why...over and beyond there still having some divisions that are geographically too large in America to make it more palatable for many racers budgets and time (starting with mine).

2. Those who can afford faster class cars probably have extra money to spend on the parts/work they can do to make their already faster cars more so, much easier than a slower roller likely can, so although the index change affected us all, faster class racers can more easily deal with it.

3. I'll agree with that one, but again see above.

4. I'm not sure how you get more money with less entry fee costs? Based on what I have to pay now for a national event entry, as opposed to the contingencies available for me to claim, I'm paying more for less...circa 1999 when I paid less than $200 bucks to race in a national event, and was able to enjoy winning $500 in class contingency money. Today's entry fees for national events are nearly double what they were then, and the best I can do in class is $50. What's fair about that?

5. I want the factors back the way they were, and my car isn't nearly quick enough to be concerned about any penalties. Since that won't likely happen, I'll be greatful again for a growing IHRA presence out west.

6. I'll agree with you on the first part of your statement, but again refer to my response #2 for the second part. Since most racers have more in their engines (money wise) than I do in my whole car, if I could afford to campaign a car like yours, I would still be racing (even inspite of the higher gas prices, that although are still high, are better than they were 1-4 months ago).

I wish you well too with your car, and I'm glad you're able to continue racing it. Since my budget isn't as good as yours is (thanks in a large part, to the lack of caring about MADE IN THE USA, by many around us), I do the best I can with what I have. This year so far has been much better for me with regards to the level of racing I could do, and thanks to IHRA's apparent greater caring for us class racers, now I can enjoy major league racing levels, without having to spend major league (enhanced) dollars....

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Richard Grant

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

Well said Richard...another reason I've been glad to embrace the IHRA Finally in the western 1/2 of the country!