Just an idea. Don't shoot me Ed

[Chuck Norton]

Originally Posted by Dale Shannon

just do away with the shoe polish and see what the hot shoes that play the ladder game do,let them become the hunted and not the hunter.That would do away with the phrase I hate to here most (BRACKET MODE)
Dale

That was tried back in the '70s. Didn't produce the desired effect then and today it still tops the list as the option most likely to completely kill the eliminator within three years.

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Ryan Horensky

I've seen dragsters against dragsters and door cars against door cars in big money bracket races for the first few rounds, but generally there isn't a ladder instituated until later rounds in those types of races. I don't see how it could work off an actual qualifying sheet in a class like super stock where everyone is qualifying off an index. I really don't see how its fair to the people running modified style cars either? Being you're from Division 1 too, I'm sure you've watched Peter Biondo, Dan Fletcher, Lincoln Morehead, and numerous other racers win in super stockers that were not in the modified classes.

Ryan, love the stang. I proposed how the pairings would work for first round based off qualifying off the index. Ladder games would be a thing of the past. Random pairing would never work because people already take forever to come to the lanes. It would just get worse.

What would not be fair to the people running modified style cars? The fact they wouldn't get to chase the class cars who can't afford to build 100k race cars? What is fair about the way it is now? Fletcher does run a modified car. But yes he and the others you've mentioned are great drivers without a doubt.

[Chris1529]

By random pairings, I don't mean to call the class then just have everyone come up to the lanes at their own free will. I would propose something like this:

After the first time trial, there would be a good idea of how many cars are there running the eliminator. After the second time trial, as you pass the scales or get your et slip, you can draw a number out of a hat ( with the exclusion of #1-still give the #1 a bye if there is an odd number of cars. Use that number as your qualifying position to set the sportsman ladder just as you would qualifying. That way, cars are still paired up so there are no waiting games and no pitting beside someone you think you can beat.

[Jack Matyas]

Mr. Fazio - What you are proposing doesn't make any sense .If there are fifty cars in your eliminator you must be prepared to race any of the other 49 to win .It realy doesn't matter who you race in round one or the final - you must get past all of them at some time . And if you feel you can't win before round one even starts you probably won't . If ladder games are so important you may join in also - if you can't beat 'em - join 'em .From where I sit the big advantage comes from getting or not getting heads-up runs .That stuff about looking for a duck first round - sometimes those quakkers will bite you in the butte .And there are very few that can't run the index today unlike 30 years ago .

As for those who think that racing a modified / non-traditional 160mph S/S 'er is so cheap - jump in and find out for yourself .If its easy you'll be glad ..........

One last thing - if you took all of the Modified / GT type cars out of SuperStock it would be gone ........and quickly .Remember - drag racing is still based on two basic principles - get a light and run the number !

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Mr. Fazio - What you are proposing doesn't make any sense .If there are fifty cars in your eliminator you must be prepared to race any of the other 49 to win .It realy doesn't matter who you race in round one or the final - you must get past all of them at some time . And if you feel you can't win before round one even starts you probably won't . If ladder games are so important you may join in also - if you can't beat 'em - join 'em .From where I sit the big advantage comes from getting or not getting heads-up runs .That stuff about looking for a duck first round - sometimes those quakkers will bite you in the butte .And there are very few that can't run the index today unlike 30 years ago .

As for those who think that racing a modified / non-traditional 160mph S/S 'er is so cheap - jump in and find out for yourself .If its easy you'll be glad ..........

One last thing - if you took all of the Modified / GT type cars out of SuperStock it would be gone ........and quickly .Remember - drag racing is still based on two basic principles - get a light and run the number !

Jack it seems you misinterpreted the point of my post. I don't know where I said racing a modified/non-traditional 160mph S/S'er is cheap? Also, I separated modified and GT so your last sentence doesn't reflect anything I said. Ladder games - they don't bother me but they seemed to upset a lot of other people so I just showed how it would get rid of them altogether.

If you read my first post I was aiming at increasing parity among the cars in later rounds and make for an exciting first round from a fan standpoint.

[Ryan Horensky]

Originally Posted by SStock1373

Ryan, love the stang. I proposed how the pairings would work for first round based off qualifying off the index. Ladder games would be a thing of the past. Random pairing would never work because people already take forever to come to the lanes. It would just get worse.

What would not be fair to the people running modified style cars? The fact they wouldn't get to chase the class cars who can't afford to build 100k race cars? What is fair about the way it is now? Fletcher does run a modified car. But yes he and the others you've mentioned are great drivers without a doubt.

Fletcher has only been running the modified combo for a few years. Nothing will ever make ladder games go away unless it is all random pairing and I believe a few people posted on the problems that can occur with random pairing. What isn't fair about the way things are now? Are you going to penalize people that have the money to build more expensive cars than you? It seems you have your own agenda going on. When I race stock I chase alot of cars. When I bracket race I spend all day long looking over my shoulder. I don't cry about. I just deal with it and try to get better on the top end every time I do it. I think you need to find a way to race under the current rule structure that I'm sure isn't going to change just because you don't think it's fair.

[danny waters sr]

Just don't show qualifying sheet til last qualifyer is done....
I know there will be racers with their own helpers in the stands writing the runs down ,but at least they had to work for it..


It is what it is !!!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by danny waters sr

Just don't show qualifying sheet til last qualifyer is done...

also, do away with putting an ET on the scoreboards,2 sided timeslips and all progressive times (just RT, ET and MPH) during Sportsman qualifying.
Wouldn't it be fun to see all of the competitors "racing blind" going into eliminations?

[Bobby Fazio]

Originally Posted by Ryan Horensky

Fletcher has only been running the modified combo for a few years. Nothing will ever make ladder games go away unless it is all random pairing and I believe a few people posted on the problems that can occur with random pairing. What isn't fair about the way things are now? Are you going to penalize people that have the money to build more expensive cars than you? It seems you have your own agenda going on. When I race stock I chase alot of cars. When I bracket race I spend all day long looking over my shoulder. I don't cry about. I just deal with it and try to get better on the top end every time I do it. I think you need to find a way to race under the current rule structure that I'm sure isn't going to change just because you don't think it's fair.

No one wants random pairing so I don't know why people keep bringing it up. Ladder games weren't my primary concern, just an added benefit because they would only help you for one round and you won't know where you will be in 2nd round.

You still haven't told me what is fair about a car with rules and stock components and a car with no rules and far superior aftermarket parts (and a hood scoop) racing each other. I don't know how I'm penalizing anyone? If anything, the class cars are getting penalized no?

[Stewart Way]

What class car in SS has "no rules" as you put it? None. What are the Mod cars allowed in the engine that we are not. We all can have aftermarket cranks, rods, pistons, rings, valves, springs, retainers, rockers, pushrods, lifters, cams, timing chains/belts and maybe even blocks. What "stock components are we limited to that the Mod cars are not? Carbs and maybe head castings that we can port now. Some SS cars can even run Alum heads. And now we don't have to run the original carb number. There are also hood scoops in traditional SS.

You ask "what is fair" about running these cars. What is unfair about running them? As Jack said. it still comes down to running the number after cutting a light.