Red Light Answer

[Mike Gray]

Originally Posted by Jason Oldfield

Now, does all this mean for certain that the photographers flash caused this event to occur? Absolutely not, but from a scientific standpoint, it seems awfully coincidental that the photographers flash goes off, and immediately afterwards the red light comes on. I'd have to see the original footage frame by frame (you can't do this on YouTube) to see what the timing difference is because optical sensors are fast acting. If the timing difference is long (i.e. more than a few tenths of a second), it would seem likely to me that something else must have caused this to happen. But, if it is literally the next frame as somebody else posted, stray IR light from the photographers flash is a distinct possibility.

...

If you look at the You Tube video in full screen then drag the small circle on the timing bar you can move ahead to the location of the run in question. Keep holding down your mouse and you can rock the picture back and forth. At 19:13 the 1st yellow is lit and the camera flash is visible at 19:14 it shows the 2nd yellow on and the red light on at the same time.
It may not be close enough to determine the length of time it took but I enjoyed the lesson.

[Doug McCue]

with your normal curve displayed, you have not given any evidence to say the flash has anything to do with the red light. You will have to do more research in order to make any statement of any kind.

[Carl Weisinger]

This is an interesting subject for sure. But, let's not overlook the obvious. What are the chances some electronic voodoo happened at exactly the same time this photographers
flash went off? About 14,000,000,000,000 to 1? (wait a minute, that's the national debt number). Anyhow, if they keep coming up with more doo-dads for the timing equipment
they will take away my last excuse for losing. Stage-Loc, Smage-Loc. Now, if we could just get back to the days of the crooked a## flag starter that would raise the green flag
when I left the starting line . . . . . . . . .

[billy leber]

Originally Posted by Doug McCue

with your normal curve displayed, you have not given any evidence to say the flash has anything to do with the red light. You will have to do more research in order to make any statement of any kind.

What statement did he make ? He said it was a possibility, and it is more plausible than other statements made , such as the tire pressure changed, yea thats some quality research done there . Ill make a statement on limited research, ie looking at the video, that dude got ***#ED !!!

[Rich Biebel]

Applying the "Occam's Razor" line of reasoning..."the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

The simplest explaination would be that the car did move slightly and the flash just appears to be a coincidence.

I for one did not know how the sensors are arranged on the starting line. I thought they were arranged as a sender and receiver.

Do I still think the flash caused the redlight.....Yes I do.

No one can say for sure what that flash might have refleced off of and the path that refelction took. It definately is less likely than the car moved but it still appears to be triggered at the time of the flash......

We need a government grant and a couple federal and state agencies to study this.....Should only take a few years for them to come up with an answer. A couple million $$$ should do it

[Bret Kepner]

Jason Oldfield is talking WAAAAY over my head so I can't really comment on his theory. However, I've always held the belief if a photographer's flash could either match or override the frequency used in the infra-red sensors, there would be a few thousand more of these redlights than we currently witness.

I don't know the photographer shown in the image but, as much as I hate slamming anybody, he has no clue what he is doing. Anybody with any experience in this business knows you never actuate a flash in drag racing until the car leaves the line. When shooting handicapped eliminations, one never actuates a flash before the quickest car has left the line.

I also agree with Carl; we're losing excuses at an alarming rate and something must be done.

PLEASE HELP SAVE THE EXCUSES!

[Signman]

Had something similar happen to me when running Jerry Stein's Max Wedge car a few years ago. Was getting used to it footbraking in heavy at Englishtown. All staged up second round, knew I was very shallow, tree comes down and the apple lights up. Never moved, just dropped the rpm and drove down track. Friend standing watching me do this later asked what happened: My answer was "a stone or cigarette butt fell off." Few years before when used to run my chevelle in heavy and advanced trophy Michael Napp stopped to look over my car in the AT lane making sure I was legal for the class. Conversation developed and he explained how this stuff can happen.

Agree with Bret explanation of the flickering bulb. Think Joe Sway of Atco gave me that lesson at my first bracket finals.
It's not unknown that a racecar can roll backward when applying the transbrake. Has to do with valve body, hydraulics and clutch engagement.
The flash of the camera may seem far out but a very good explanation of the possibility was provided.
With all the possibilities then what is the possibility that a stone was stuck to the tire, just happened to line up with the stage beam and then gravity took over and just fell off.

Sorry you got the short end, but in the end "just buy more tech cards" and one of these fluke situations may just go your way.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I'm with you Brett, Jason is way over my head too.
Does'nt it take infrared beam to activate system so other light sources can't activate it?
This story is'nt aimed at anyone just I thought it was funny.
Years ago my Dad hired a guy at his shop,He had told him how good he was ASE certifications etc. So first job for him was lady brought in car she said had a engine miss every now and then it would come and go,so the new guy checked it all out and came back to my Dad and told him what was wrong with it was it had a intermitten(spell?) problem,
Dad replied no ***** sherlock.

Another story I thought of was guy that burnt pistons in nitrous engine was'nt satisfied that he leaned it out sent pistons back to piston company to be analyzed, it was determined that engine was'nt lean after all,but had too much nitrous for the amount fuel being supplied. He was happy with that answer.`

Again this is not directed at anyone just adding to statement that was made about simplest answer is correct alot of times.

Did I see early in this post that He had redlighted at next race in similiar fashion?
I know all too well the frustration of redlights.
Mike Taylor 3601

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by Mike Taylor 3601

Does'nt it take infrared beam to activate system so other light sources can't activate it?

That's absolutely correct Mike. But, it is possible that the IR light could have come from the photographers flash, even though all we see is visible white white (I'll keep this short because if you want the whole description, you can go through my science lesson again).

In the end, as I said previously, in order for something like this to happen you would need to have a perfect storm of events take place. So, that's why I don't think we have, or will see it happen all that often. From my perspective, the simplest rule is to ask the photographers to refrain from taking flash photography directly at the line (i.e. shoot down the track all you like), or until the fastest car is in the process of launching (this obviously also eliminates the potential distraction issue for the drivers as well). If this were done, we'd never have to worry about anybody claiming that a photographers flash impacted the outcome of their race.

[Rob Petrie E395]

Bret
At school you instructed us that we should be as shallow as possible every run. That way we know where the car is at the start of every run for consistancy. So if we are running at a track without a gaurd beam should we give it one bump past flicker to be safe or just assume that this is a 1in 10 million type deal and keep doing it the way you taught us. By the way any chance you will be doing the school somewhere else. I really enjoyed the classes that I went to and learned alot. I just wish I could have made them all but business has a way of getting in my way of doing stuff.
Rob