Another low car count? - Page 8

Marvin Robinson · 03-18-2011, 01:17 PM

Look, guys, there are two trains of thought here... some guys want to compete against other drivers with their driving skills and ADDITIONALLY compete their CAR against all other cars in the class (and eliminator) performance wise. That means testing, tuning, trying new parts/adjustments to make your car equal to or better than the best of it's kind.

Then there is bracket racing, where you JUST want to compete against other DRIVERS to win, the car is just the tool to get the job done and you can pick whatever car you have a liking for, and use whatever parts you decide will work for you. You can also pre-determine what budget will be comfortable for you, and compete within that budget - that, to a large extent, will determine what performance levels at which you can successfully compete, but once decided, you can build a car and stick with that combination as long as you like and stay competitive. Both approaches are valid, but which one appeals to you most depends on your own personal makeup.

For those technically inclined, S/SS/Comp holds an innate fascination with extracting performance, and doing it better than the other guy. Also by it's very rules-driven nature for parts origins and allowable modifications, makes achieving any given level of performance more expensive than doing it with unlimited choices of parts & modifications. Longevity of parts and combos is often sacrificed in search of more performance, and the necessary maintenance to stay in the hunt are part of the landscape.

For most bracket racers, consistency and simplicity are the key factors to winning, and these goals are much easier and less expensive to achieve, and constant upgrading and testing is not absolutely necessary to maintain your competitiveness.

A lot of racers enjoy participating in both camps, but the core of these two groups are motivated differently, so they see the racing in a different light from each other, and have differing concerns... there is no reason to bicker over which is best, or who the real racers are, just understand they are different, and work on how to structure races to work best for each group (and how to make each the most appealing to the paying spectator).

As to the car counts, it's obvious that NHRA programs address the index racers in a more satisfactory way than for the Class racers. Also, especially with the newest "enhancements", the choice and timing of what races to attend and when to enter with a Class car depends a lot on the personal assessment of my ability to have the car properly prepared and competitive at that particular race & time. I think this may be the same for a lot of other Class racers and a contributor to the low car counts prior to raceday. So that still leaves the question: to improve car counts, how do we make it better for the Class racer??? Who should be making the decisions, and how do we implement them? (How much does NHRA care?)

I wonder, if we compare the number of index cars that COULD enter, to the number that attend a given race, and do the same for the Class cars, would there be a similar percentage drop?

Joe Schweigert · 03-18-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong

Vegas has been down to 1 grade point for a week. and only 33 stockers and 29 superstockers, comp only has 9 cars. But the .90 cars are full.
If it was just the cost of traveling the .90 classes would be down.
Maybe it's the enhancements? Thanks nhra

Vegas is not a cheap place to stay anymore that along with the economy the price of diesel, increase entry cost.. ect factors in to the low car count . I did notice that the quotas are less than in years past Just wonder how full the super classes would be if the quotas were more ? I know in the past S/C & S/G would draw well over 120 cars at most Div events

Chuck Beach · 03-18-2011, 01:30 PM

Marvin, I don't think anyone on this forum that races stock and SS are bickering with anyone that races brackets, the point they are trying to make is there is a place on this forum for stock & SS comments and there is a place on this forum for bracket racing comments. Making bracket racing comments in the stock & SS section makes no sense.

treekiller · 03-18-2011, 02:07 PM

IMPROVING CAR COUNTS make it fair WOW what is sooooo hard to understand?

Marvin Robinson · 03-18-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Marvin, I don't think anyone on this forum that races stock and SS are bickering with anyone that races brackets, the point they are trying to make is there is a place on this forum for stock & SS comments and there is a place on this forum for bracket racing comments. Making bracket racing comments in the stock & SS section makes no sense.

Gotcha.... treekiller is right on the money, too!!!!

Harry 6674 · 03-18-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treekiller

IMPROVING CAR COUNTS make it fair WOW what is sooooo hard to understand?

Makes it fair for who?

Alan Roehrich · 03-18-2011, 04:02 PM

Just say no to eliminating heads up races in Stock and Super Stock. Take out the chance of getting a heads up race, and it's just another bracket race, only with more expensive cars, and a smaller purse. Exactly who is going to go to a bracket race that costs $305 to enter and only pays $1500? Especially with an expensive and difficult to maintain class car?

I had a conversation the other day with a guy who may be the very best class car chassis builder in the country. He said the only thing that got him to the track lately was the Hemi cars at the Hemi shootouts, because everything else had become diluted and convoluted.

I'd rather get beat heads up every so often, than have nothing but a pure dial in bracket race. If we get beat by a new car heads up, he's got nothing at all to brag about, and we've got nothing to hang our head about. I quit racing years ago after doing nothing but bracket racing and .90 super class racing for years. I was bored stiff, and sick of it. The ONLY reason I came back to the sport I love is the chance to work with class cars.

Make it all bracket racing, and I'm done. I have nothing against guys who bracket race, and .90 super race, some of my best friends do it, and more power to them. But I am done with that. If it comes to nothing but that, I'll spend my time hunting and fishing, and getting my pilot's license.

Ed Wright · 03-18-2011, 04:13 PM

X2

Billy Nees · 03-18-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Just say no to eliminating heads up races in Stock and Super Stock. Take out the chance of getting a heads up race, and it's just another bracket race, only with more expensive cars, and a smaller purse. Exactly who is going to go to a bracket race that costs $305 to enter and only pays $1500? Especially with an expensive and difficult to maintain class car?

The "Alternative Lifestyle Weekend/ RV Rodeo"crowd. You know, the majority of the people going there now.

treekiller · 03-18-2011, 04:36 PM

Why is the idea of having to drive your car to win a race instead of just having the fastest one on the property so distasteful to some? How much money do you win for winning class eliminations? If you win a national event without running another car in your class all you have done is win a bracket race. Does that not feel worth it unless you outrun 3 cars in your class while cutting 150 lights? Cmon

03-18-2011, 01:17 PM	#71
Marvin Robinson Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Gary, IN Posts: 139 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another low car count? Look, guys, there are two trains of thought here... some guys want to compete against other drivers with their driving skills and ADDITIONALLY compete their CAR against all other cars in the class (and eliminator) performance wise. That means testing, tuning, trying new parts/adjustments to make your car equal to or better than the best of it's kind. Then there is bracket racing, where you JUST want to compete against other DRIVERS to win, the car is just the tool to get the job done and you can pick whatever car you have a liking for, and use whatever parts you decide will work for you. You can also pre-determine what budget will be comfortable for you, and compete within that budget - that, to a large extent, will determine what performance levels at which you can successfully compete, but once decided, you can build a car and stick with that combination as long as you like and stay competitive. Both approaches are valid, but which one appeals to you most depends on your own personal makeup. For those technically inclined, S/SS/Comp holds an innate fascination with extracting performance, and doing it better than the other guy. Also by it's very rules-driven nature for parts origins and allowable modifications, makes achieving any given level of performance more expensive than doing it with unlimited choices of parts & modifications. Longevity of parts and combos is often sacrificed in search of more performance, and the necessary maintenance to stay in the hunt are part of the landscape. For most bracket racers, consistency and simplicity are the key factors to winning, and these goals are much easier and less expensive to achieve, and constant upgrading and testing is not absolutely necessary to maintain your competitiveness. A lot of racers enjoy participating in both camps, but the core of these two groups are motivated differently, so they see the racing in a different light from each other, and have differing concerns... there is no reason to bicker over which is best, or who the real racers are, just understand they are different, and work on how to structure races to work best for each group (and how to make each the most appealing to the paying spectator). As to the car counts, it's obvious that NHRA programs address the index racers in a more satisfactory way than for the Class racers. Also, especially with the newest "enhancements", the choice and timing of what races to attend and when to enter with a Class car depends a lot on the personal assessment of my ability to have the car properly prepared and competitive at that particular race & time. I think this may be the same for a lot of other Class racers and a contributor to the low car counts prior to raceday. So that still leaves the question: to improve car counts, how do we make it better for the Class racer??? Who should be making the decisions, and how do we implement them? (How much does NHRA care?) I wonder, if we compare the number of index cars that COULD enter, to the number that attend a given race, and do the same for the Class cars, would there be a similar percentage drop? __________________ Marvin Robinson 3188 STK/SS Last edited by Marvin Robinson; 03-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.

03-18-2011, 01:30 PM	#73
Chuck Beach Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 664 Likes: 12 Liked 58 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Another low car count? Marvin, I don't think anyone on this forum that races stock and SS are bickering with anyone that races brackets, the point they are trying to make is there is a place on this forum for stock & SS comments and there is a place on this forum for bracket racing comments. Making bracket racing comments in the stock & SS section makes no sense. __________________ Chuck Beach 3340 STK

03-18-2011, 02:07 PM	#74
treekiller Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another low car count? IMPROVING CAR COUNTS make it fair WOW what is sooooo hard to understand?

03-18-2011, 04:02 PM	#77
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,113 Likes: 1,571 Liked 1,826 Times in 414 Posts	Re: Another low car count? Just say no to eliminating heads up races in Stock and Super Stock. Take out the chance of getting a heads up race, and it's just another bracket race, only with more expensive cars, and a smaller purse. Exactly who is going to go to a bracket race that costs $305 to enter and only pays $1500? Especially with an expensive and difficult to maintain class car? I had a conversation the other day with a guy who may be the very best class car chassis builder in the country. He said the only thing that got him to the track lately was the Hemi cars at the Hemi shootouts, because everything else had become diluted and convoluted. I'd rather get beat heads up every so often, than have nothing but a pure dial in bracket race. If we get beat by a new car heads up, he's got nothing at all to brag about, and we've got nothing to hang our head about. I quit racing years ago after doing nothing but bracket racing and .90 super class racing for years. I was bored stiff, and sick of it. The ONLY reason I came back to the sport I love is the chance to work with class cars. Make it all bracket racing, and I'm done. I have nothing against guys who bracket race, and .90 super race, some of my best friends do it, and more power to them. But I am done with that. If it comes to nothing but that, I'll spend my time hunting and fishing, and getting my pilot's license. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

03-18-2011, 04:13 PM	#78
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Another low car count? X2 __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

03-18-2011, 04:36 PM	#80
treekiller Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Another low car count? Why is the idea of having to drive your car to win a race instead of just having the fastest one on the property so distasteful to some? How much money do you win for winning class eliminations? If you win a national event without running another car in your class all you have done is win a bracket race. Does that not feel worth it unless you outrun 3 cars in your class while cutting 150 lights? Cmon