Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock

Wade Mahaffey · 03-09-2011, 11:06 PM

Is there a person in the NHRA or IHRA that is availible 24-7 to answer a tech question that tech officials are not in agreement on during a race? Kinda like an on duty director that could make a judgement call, an end of the line tech official. Or is (Bruce or Pat NHRA) and (Hank or Mike IHRA) that person and availible 24-7 under a secret number? Is there a master rule book/on line progran that gets much more involved, and deeper into the subject matter. I always hear the east coast, west cost rule book thing. Also the fact that people run things for years and get thru tech, then all of a sudden....can't use that! WTH! It seems like there would be a "master manual" (for tech officials) to help standardize and provide consistancy to minimize an incorrect interpitation of a rule. It would be nice to call in a question to D-1 and get the exact same answer from D-7. If they had a master program in print or online for the tech officals....it could be that way. And it should be that way, because D-1 folks race in D-7 and vis-versa. In defense of the tech departments, there is so much to know with S and S/S. There needs to be a place to go for the true facts. Also updates, rule changes, amendments, and tech bulletins could be viewed in just a few seconds online. I feel this would level the playing field, and allow the racers to proceed with more confidence in the rules enforcement. What's not to like?

Wade Mahaffey

Lew Silverman · 03-09-2011, 11:08 PM

Great idea, Wade!

Now let's see who steps up to make it a reality!

Lew

danny waters sr · 03-09-2011, 11:32 PM

Good luck with that one..lol rule book says subject to change on a LOT of the pages...
DW your" un-official"......

Julie Jordan · 03-09-2011, 11:39 PM

A rulebook is subject to interpretation by the tech officials and racers alike. I think it's impossible to make wording that would cover all situations. It's like the tax code...all interpreted in different ways. And it's all legal until you get caught! lol

Pedigo Perf · 03-09-2011, 11:51 PM

Wade, I think some of the Tech guys live for the "gray areas" of the rulebook. What can you do......get a letter of approval for every nut bolt and washer on your car?
I like the concept that you propose and I think Wesley could handle that job, but he doesn't deserve the grief. It's going to take a real glutton for punishment and a strong personality to take that job. TP

Wade Mahaffey · 03-10-2011, 07:15 AM

I think it would be tough for sure. The way Wesley explained it to me "If the rule book does'nt say you can.....you can't". This would alleviate the gray area because the rule book would have to say you can directly. The issue with that would be, the ability to be innovative. And in most cases at the upper end of innovation means $$$$. I just feel that if a racer was to bring something new to the table that had not been seen by tech before, it would be nice if a supreme ruling could be made. And if it was accepted, a revised/adjusted rule could be put into the master book and/or online for all tech officials to view. This would just be an attempt to keep everyone on the same page as far as rules enforcement!

Wade Mahaffey

Pedigo Perf · 03-10-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Mahaffey

I think it would be tough for sure. The way Wesley explained it to me "If the rule book does'nt say you can.....you can't". This would alleviate the gray area because the rule book would have to say you can directly. Wade Mahaffey

Key words in the rulebook are "any" and "only". I personally wouldn't have a problem with the aluminum 3rd members for 9" Ford users, and, so what if it is aftermarket. That's what this industry is driven by....the aftermarket!
But.....if the 2011 Drag Packs can use a Ford 9" does that allow all Mopar racers that option? If Tech is getting spread too thin then maybe they need to pick their battles and start by the using the word "any" a little bit more in the rulebook.

When was the last time someone collected protest money? Just curios.

TP

Chuck Beach · 03-10-2011, 08:43 AM

As far as safety there should never be any grey areas, but from a mechanical standpoint there are so many different cars and combinations I sure it is very difficult to cover any and all situations. I think NHRA has done as much as they can when it comes to engine specs for each combo ... from runner volumes, valve sizes, stroke, bore, piston/rod weight, (things you can measure) but after that some things you just can't measure and put in the rule book. Those other specs are left up to interpretation by each tech. I am not saying this is right or wrong, but those are the facts. Hence, left coast, right coast rules.

What I would like to see for any 'ruling' or interpretation by any tech person would be that they should fill out some kind of form or paper work defining the situation or infraction, what they ruled and why and file it in a NHRA data base for future reference. Then they could review this data base info and come up with more of a base line for setting the rules. Over time they could minimize the 'grey areas'. But this takes time and effort and I am not sure they have the staff or time to do it.

Tom Goldman · 03-10-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigo Perf

Key words in the rulebook are "any" and "only". I personally wouldn't have a problem with the aluminum 3rd members for 9" Ford users, and, so what if it is aftermarket. That's what this industry is driven by....the aftermarket!
But.....if the 2011 Drag Packs can use a Ford 9" does that allow all Mopar racers that option? If Tech is getting spread too thin then maybe they need to pick their battles and start by the using the word "any" a little bit more in the rulebook.

When was the last time someone collected protest money? Just curios.

TP

There is no performance advantage to the aluminum chunk ,other than a few pounds that will have to be made up anyway. ...So why not allow them.
The "9"inch housing some Drag Pak cars are using only utilizes the housing stamping . It has a different mounting flange that accepts the Mopar 8 3/4" aluminum chunk [good luck getting one!], not the Ford 9'" chunk.

Bob Pagano · 03-10-2011, 10:31 AM

Wade, Very good idea but Glendora, now Indy and there lies another problem. Where will Danny be ? The way I see it 2 of the best, Travis Miller and Wesley Robenson have been belittled, forced to change their decisions and had their pay cut. When you have 2 tech men with the knowledge of these 2 have why not use them ? Instead they are pushed farther away. Wesley had more info on HP for the AHFS but was removed from the committee. I do not think NHRA can handle a national scale rule book when it comes to Stock and SS, there pick of the week check at national events is about as far as they can go. Real tech done at Indy often is changed by Danny, if the head guy runs the ship and continues to do so Stock and SS are doomed, the rules have been diluted to a point of no return.

03-09-2011, 11:06 PM	#1
Wade Mahaffey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 581 Likes: 0 Liked 17 Times in 7 Posts	Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock Is there a person in the NHRA or IHRA that is availible 24-7 to answer a tech question that tech officials are not in agreement on during a race? Kinda like an on duty director that could make a judgement call, an end of the line tech official. Or is (Bruce or Pat NHRA) and (Hank or Mike IHRA) that person and availible 24-7 under a secret number? Is there a master rule book/on line progran that gets much more involved, and deeper into the subject matter. I always hear the east coast, west cost rule book thing. Also the fact that people run things for years and get thru tech, then all of a sudden....can't use that! WTH! It seems like there would be a "master manual" (for tech officials) to help standardize and provide consistancy to minimize an incorrect interpitation of a rule. It would be nice to call in a question to D-1 and get the exact same answer from D-7. If they had a master program in print or online for the tech officals....it could be that way. And it should be that way, because D-1 folks race in D-7 and vis-versa. In defense of the tech departments, there is so much to know with S and S/S. There needs to be a place to go for the true facts. Also updates, rule changes, amendments, and tech bulletins could be viewed in just a few seconds online. I feel this would level the playing field, and allow the racers to proceed with more confidence in the rules enforcement. What's not to like? Wade Mahaffey

03-09-2011, 11:08 PM	#2
Lew Silverman VIP Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,435 Likes: 371 Liked 129 Times in 59 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock Great idea, Wade! Now let's see who steps up to make it a reality! Lew __________________ Lew Silverman #2070 "The Wagon Master" N/SA

03-09-2011, 11:32 PM	#3
danny waters sr VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: lagrange,nc Posts: 2,224 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock Good luck with that one..lol rule book says subject to change on a LOT of the pages... DW your" un-official"...... __________________ Danny Waters, Sr / 73 Duster "340"

03-09-2011, 11:39 PM	#4
Julie Jordan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 639 Likes: 90 Liked 544 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock A rulebook is subject to interpretation by the tech officials and racers alike. I think it's impossible to make wording that would cover all situations. It's like the tax code...all interpreted in different ways. And it's all legal until you get caught! lol __________________ Julie Jordan 7549 STK

03-09-2011, 11:51 PM	#5
Pedigo Perf Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wichita Ks Posts: 383 Likes: 70 Liked 30 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock Wade, I think some of the Tech guys live for the "gray areas" of the rulebook. What can you do......get a letter of approval for every nut bolt and washer on your car? I like the concept that you propose and I think Wesley could handle that job, but he doesn't deserve the grief. It's going to take a real glutton for punishment and a strong personality to take that job. TP Last edited by Pedigo Perf; 03-10-2011 at 12:10 AM.

03-10-2011, 07:15 AM	#6
Wade Mahaffey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 581 Likes: 0 Liked 17 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock I think it would be tough for sure. The way Wesley explained it to me "If the rule book does'nt say you can.....you can't". This would alleviate the gray area because the rule book would have to say you can directly. The issue with that would be, the ability to be innovative. And in most cases at the upper end of innovation means $$$$. I just feel that if a racer was to bring something new to the table that had not been seen by tech before, it would be nice if a supreme ruling could be made. And if it was accepted, a revised/adjusted rule could be put into the master book and/or online for all tech officials to view. This would just be an attempt to keep everyone on the same page as far as rules enforcement! Wade Mahaffey

03-10-2011, 08:43 AM	#8
Chuck Beach Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 664 Likes: 12 Liked 58 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock As far as safety there should never be any grey areas, but from a mechanical standpoint there are so many different cars and combinations I sure it is very difficult to cover any and all situations. I think NHRA has done as much as they can when it comes to engine specs for each combo ... from runner volumes, valve sizes, stroke, bore, piston/rod weight, (things you can measure) but after that some things you just can't measure and put in the rule book. Those other specs are left up to interpretation by each tech. I am not saying this is right or wrong, but those are the facts. Hence, left coast, right coast rules. What I would like to see for any 'ruling' or interpretation by any tech person would be that they should fill out some kind of form or paper work defining the situation or infraction, what they ruled and why and file it in a NHRA data base for future reference. Then they could review this data base info and come up with more of a base line for setting the rules. Over time they could minimize the 'grey areas'. But this takes time and effort and I am not sure they have the staff or time to do it. __________________ Chuck Beach 3340 STK Last edited by Chuck Beach; 03-10-2011 at 10:45 AM.

03-10-2011, 10:31 AM	#10
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 240 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Is there a supreme tech god for Stock and Super/Stock Wade, Very good idea but Glendora, now Indy and there lies another problem. Where will Danny be ? The way I see it 2 of the best, Travis Miller and Wesley Robenson have been belittled, forced to change their decisions and had their pay cut. When you have 2 tech men with the knowledge of these 2 have why not use them ? Instead they are pushed farther away. Wesley had more info on HP for the AHFS but was removed from the committee. I do not think NHRA can handle a national scale rule book when it comes to Stock and SS, there pick of the week check at national events is about as far as they can go. Real tech done at Indy often is changed by Danny, if the head guy runs the ship and continues to do so Stock and SS are doomed, the rules have been diluted to a point of no return. __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA