How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? - Page 2

Toby Lang · 01-26-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A56

Im not sure everyone understands totally that NHRA dosent get all sorts of money from the Manufacturers. NHRA does get a fee up front to become a NHRA Contingency sponser. This fee is kind of high, but in honesty its reasonable for a buisness. Then the Contingency sponser has to pay out X amount of dollars to the racers throught the whole year. If this money is not all spent, the contingency sponser has to write a check to NHRA for the amount not spent at the end of the year. Now if you are a large company like Crane, its more than likely that you will pay the racers way more than the agreed amount. If this is true, you will not be writing a check to NHRA at the end of the year.

I just want to make sure everybody sees this again. Although I heard the sponsors have to pay the minimum posting up front and receive a refund after the minimum is paid out. Maybe it works differently on the divisional level though.

From what I've heard almost all, if not all, of the current sponsors met the minimum posting requirement. So NHRA hardly got any of the unclaimed money.

I don't know how many times I've heard people on here and at the track say "NHRA keeps ALL unclaimed postings." Or "They have to pay it all to NHRA anyway, so why not just give it to us instead." Well, as you can see that's not true.

I think it's pretty simple. If you don't think you can pay out the minimum amount, why become a sponsor in the first place?

-Toby

Dick Butler · 01-26-2011, 03:56 PM

Lots of discussion of payouts. Most not willing to allow any "change" in rules in exchange for "saving S and SS"?
WHat is important parts of Class racing to save"
Specs on the motors, brands, stick and auto. New and old bodies, GT style cars?
If there could be a set of goals to move toward to save the S and SS with some flexibility to make some adjustments ?

Jim Wahl · 01-26-2011, 05:54 PM

If NHRA is really interested in what's best for the racer, then why do they take the unused contingency money? What do they do with that "free money"? Why don't they make sure the racer gets paid anymore? Jim

Thanks for your input Mark, no wonder sponsors are pulling out. Just ask Turbo Action.

Performance Welding Racing Headers are the best!

.

71mavlouisville · 01-26-2011, 06:51 PM

What about this

consolidate classes for class racing

SS/AH - heads up

SS/Stick - race off index - first to line wins

SS/Auto - race off index - first to line wins

SS/Modified - race off index - first to line wins

Any class that has at least 2 cars - Heads Up

Race on Friday down to 2 cars in each class - first round can count as qualifying

Feature class racing on Saturday Night or later Sunday during the Finals.

That would give racers a chance to be part of the show on Saturday or Sunday when you family/friends are more likely to come out and see you.

More Exposure to bigger fan base

Bring more excitement to class racing again

If it rains go to lowest qualified 2 cars in each category

Ashton Hudson SS/CS 4373

Ed Carpenter · 01-26-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71mavlouisville

What about this

consolidate classes for class racing

SS/AH - heads up

SS/Stick - race off index - first to line wins

SS/Auto - race off index - first to line wins

SS/Modified - race off index - first to line wins

Any class that has at least 2 cars - Heads Up

Race on Friday down to 2 cars in each class - first round can count as qualifying

Feature class racing on Saturday Night or later Sunday during the Finals.

That would give racers a chance to be part of the show on Saturday or Sunday when you family/friends are more likely to come out and see you.

More Exposure to bigger fan base

Bring more excitement to class racing again

If it rains go to lowest qualified 2 cars in each category

Ashton Hudson SS/CS 4373

This is one of the better ideas.

Jim Bailey · 02-12-2011, 12:30 PM

I think it's more than just saving class racing in general. I think its about saving NHRA Drag Racing period. I know that's a big statement, but not totally out of the question. The "System" needs an overhaul. I would separated Pro and Sportsman Racing, Completely. Two completely different Series. My PRO SERIES (National Events) events would be "ALL" Heads up, Pro Start, first one to the finish line racing. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Alky F/C, and Jr. (Injected)Fuel. There would be no Alky Dragsters. It would include,Top Super Stock, Top Jr. Super Stock, Top Stock, and Top Jr. Stock. And Finally a Factory F/X Class. ..... My SPORTSMEN SERIES would be a total Sportsnational Type Event. Featuring Alky Dragsters, Comp. Elim, Super Stock, Stock, S.St, S.Gas, and S. Comp. Class Eliminations would be contested at these events.... There would be two completely different purse structures, entry fees, etc.( You would have to qualify for this series through you division races,( ie: grade points.).....I'm not sure how, but at a single race, ie: INDY, I would bring in the Top 10 cars from each class, from each division, plus Sportsnats winners, for a standard handicap race. CIC Style, however, the AHFS would not apply to this single event.
I would go with around a 20 Event Pro Series and a 10 Event Sportsnationals. No National Opens. Then of course, your Divisional Series.

Jim Bailey · 02-12-2011, 09:24 PM

One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

Don Carpenter · 02-14-2011, 03:19 AM

Jim,
I think you are on the right track with your idea. (Class) racing as we know it needs to evolve to the the next level. Since the manufacturers don't want to pay for bye runs or support class racing consistantly, why not have a qualified field as in comp and reward quaifiers with points or qualifing bonuses if contingency money is available. No need to consolidate or eliminate classes, qualify against the index and every one will know who has the fastest car in the class. No AHFS during quailifying so records could be set with out penalty. Limit two classes per season so there won't be the( killer combo of the week). I have done some calculations from Nitro Joes stats, and for the most part the average under the index is .7-.8 under in almost every NHRA class. Using those numbers, the event CIC would start at -.710-.800. Permanant HP adjustments would start at .810-..849 =1.25x HPfor that engine family and continue up the scale in .05 increments using the current AHFS tables. This would bring new combos in line in a very short time. For example, the CJ at the current HP would receive 38 HP for a 1.20 under run during eliminations. Of course permanent adjustments should go through tear down before HP is applied. Sportsman races should be run on a divisional level. Each one should be a Sportsnationals, at season end the top ten in each class from each division race at a central location for the national championship.
Of course NHRA is not going to embrace this since they would loose the sportsman dollars at national events. If any one at IHRA was on the ball, they would be capitalizing on the current state of unrest in Glendora. Maybe its time for a new organization!
I firmly believe we need to change the sportsman format if our performance based racing is to survive. Anything else is just a bracket race. And we can do that every week end at home! I know I'm going to hear from everyone on this board that can't run .700 under. My message to you is (INDEX RACING) if you want to compete at the big show! After looking at the Bradenton results, I would be concerened if I had a .90 car with electronics, you might become extinct real soon. As will stock and S/S if we keep riding a dead horse.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong!

PS The new cic rules in comp should also apply to my above proposal, to compensate for mine shaft conditions and end of the year index or HP adjustments. These numbers could all change if we loose the cars that can't run close to .7under that will raise the class average for the event and permanent triggers. Or we could throw out any runs below .65 under to figure new class averages and adjust the triggers accordingly to start with.

X-TECH MAN · 02-14-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

How about no Alky cars at the SporstNational events either. Leave them for the nationals with all the other prima donas so they can help keep the tracks from rusting. Im not saying this to be funny. These guys belong with the other blown Pro cars. They take to much time to run from the real sportsman racers. Just my opinion here. Pro Mod would be a better spectator draw for Sports Nationals.

01-26-2011, 03:56 PM	#2
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Lots of discussion of payouts. Most not willing to allow any "change" in rules in exchange for "saving S and SS"? WHat is important parts of Class racing to save" Specs on the motors, brands, stick and auto. New and old bodies, GT style cars? If there could be a set of goals to move toward to save the S and SS with some flexibility to make some adjustments ?

01-26-2011, 05:54 PM	#3
Jim Wahl Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Central Florida Posts: 5,844 Likes: 667 Liked 683 Times in 129 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? If NHRA is really interested in what's best for the racer, then why do they take the unused contingency money? What do they do with that "free money"? Why don't they make sure the racer gets paid anymore? Jim Thanks for your input Mark, no wonder sponsors are pulling out. Just ask Turbo Action. Performance Welding Racing Headers are the best! . __________________ Jim Wahl....NHRA #2239 S/SS - IHRA # 8 Stock, D2 Stock Champion (forever I guess) 2019 Baby Gators Stock Champion 2009 NHRA D2 National Open Stock Champion 1982 NHRA D2 West Palm Beach LDRS SS Runner Up Past President, Southern Stock / Super Stock Association.

01-26-2011, 06:51 PM	#4
71mavlouisville Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 68 Likes: 0 Liked 28 Times in 1 Post	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? What about this consolidate classes for class racing SS/AH - heads up SS/Stick - race off index - first to line wins SS/Auto - race off index - first to line wins SS/Modified - race off index - first to line wins Any class that has at least 2 cars - Heads Up Race on Friday down to 2 cars in each class - first round can count as qualifying Feature class racing on Saturday Night or later Sunday during the Finals. That would give racers a chance to be part of the show on Saturday or Sunday when you family/friends are more likely to come out and see you. More Exposure to bigger fan base Bring more excitement to class racing again If it rains go to lowest qualified 2 cars in each category Ashton Hudson SS/CS 4373 __________________ Ashton Hudson SS/CS 4373

02-12-2011, 12:30 PM	#6
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? I think it's more than just saving class racing in general. I think its about saving NHRA Drag Racing period. I know that's a big statement, but not totally out of the question. The "System" needs an overhaul. I would separated Pro and Sportsman Racing, Completely. Two completely different Series. My PRO SERIES (National Events) events would be "ALL" Heads up, Pro Start, first one to the finish line racing. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Alky F/C, and Jr. (Injected)Fuel. There would be no Alky Dragsters. It would include,Top Super Stock, Top Jr. Super Stock, Top Stock, and Top Jr. Stock. And Finally a Factory F/X Class. ..... My SPORTSMEN SERIES would be a total Sportsnational Type Event. Featuring Alky Dragsters, Comp. Elim, Super Stock, Stock, S.St, S.Gas, and S. Comp. Class Eliminations would be contested at these events.... There would be two completely different purse structures, entry fees, etc.( You would have to qualify for this series through you division races,( ie: grade points.).....I'm not sure how, but at a single race, ie: INDY, I would bring in the Top 10 cars from each class, from each division, plus Sportsnats winners, for a standard handicap race. CIC Style, however, the AHFS would not apply to this single event. I would go with around a 20 Event Pro Series and a 10 Event Sportsnationals. No National Opens. Then of course, your Divisional Series.

02-12-2011, 09:24 PM	#7
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.

02-14-2011, 03:19 AM	#8
Don Carpenter Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ambridge Pa. Posts: 10 Likes: 14 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ??? Jim, I think you are on the right track with your idea. (Class) racing as we know it needs to evolve to the the next level. Since the manufacturers don't want to pay for bye runs or support class racing consistantly, why not have a qualified field as in comp and reward quaifiers with points or qualifing bonuses if contingency money is available. No need to consolidate or eliminate classes, qualify against the index and every one will know who has the fastest car in the class. No AHFS during quailifying so records could be set with out penalty. Limit two classes per season so there won't be the( killer combo of the week). I have done some calculations from Nitro Joes stats, and for the most part the average under the index is .7-.8 under in almost every NHRA class. Using those numbers, the event CIC would start at -.710-.800. Permanant HP adjustments would start at .810-..849 =1.25x HPfor that engine family and continue up the scale in .05 increments using the current AHFS tables. This would bring new combos in line in a very short time. For example, the CJ at the current HP would receive 38 HP for a 1.20 under run during eliminations. Of course permanent adjustments should go through tear down before HP is applied. Sportsman races should be run on a divisional level. Each one should be a Sportsnationals, at season end the top ten in each class from each division race at a central location for the national championship. Of course NHRA is not going to embrace this since they would loose the sportsman dollars at national events. If any one at IHRA was on the ball, they would be capitalizing on the current state of unrest in Glendora. Maybe its time for a new organization! I firmly believe we need to change the sportsman format if our performance based racing is to survive. Anything else is just a bracket race. And we can do that every week end at home! I know I'm going to hear from everyone on this board that can't run .700 under. My message to you is (INDEX RACING) if you want to compete at the big show! After looking at the Bradenton results, I would be concerened if I had a .90 car with electronics, you might become extinct real soon. As will stock and S/S if we keep riding a dead horse. Just my opinion, I could be wrong! PS The new cic rules in comp should also apply to my above proposal, to compensate for mine shaft conditions and end of the year index or HP adjustments. These numbers could all change if we loose the cars that can't run close to .7under that will raise the class average for the event and permanent triggers. Or we could throw out any runs below .65 under to figure new class averages and adjust the triggers accordingly to start with.