Santangelo vs. Lynch Heads Up

[Stocker 2]

Originally Posted by art leong

There is an eliminator tailored specificly to what you want. It is called bracket racing.
Do not confuse bracket racing with stock or superstock.
Someone will always have a faster car no matter what brand.

And bracket racing with the correct carb is called Stock or Super Stock!!!!!

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

And bracket racing with the correct carb is called Stock or Super Stock!!!!!

And correct block. Correct throttle body. Correct heads. Correct cc's of the head. Correct intake. Correct, stock lift of the camshaft (in Stock). Must meet chassis rules for the class. Tire size restrictions. Must be an accepted car/engine combination (except Modified classes and GT). Must meet the minimum weight. Must pass fuel check using accepted fuels. Must meet minimum performance levels. Can not dial-in slower than said performance levels. Must be able to pass a teardown inspection. Full, correct interior. Stock hood (in Stock, S/S and SS/GT).


etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

And correct block. Correct throttle body. Correct heads. Correct cc's of the head. Correct intake. Correct, stock lift of the camshaft (in Stock). Must meet chassis rules for the class. Tire size restrictions. Must be an accepted car/engine combination (except Modified classes and GT). Must meet the minimum weight. Must pass fuel check using accepted fuels. Must meet minimum performance levels. Can not dial-in slower than said performance levels. Must be able to pass a teardown inspection. Full, correct interior. Stock hood (in Stock, S/S and SS/GT).
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Your correct Mike.

In Stock or S/S the next time anyone puts their dial in on the window with shoe polish, close your eyes and click your heels together 3 time while repeating..."I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing."

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Jason

In Stock or S/S the next time anyone puts their dial in on the window with shoe polish, close your eyes and click your heels together 3 time while repeating..."I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing, I'm not bracket racing."

Yes. And, that two-dollar bottle of shoe polish is about the ONLY similarity between Class Racing and Bracket Racing. I'll simplify it, since I have done both in my day.

-In Stock, I have DNQ'd (did not qualify) at a race, the 2000 Indy Divisional race. 141 cars showed up. Only 128 can qualify. I ended up #138, was not quick enough, and did not get to race. I've never been told in a bracket race that I was not quick enough to race. I showed up, paid, and got to race.

-Stock requires that all cars raced be accepted in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. A minimum of fifty units must have been factory produced for that particular car/engine combination to be eligible to raced. Brackets, pretty much if you can build it, you can run it, as long as it meets safety specs for the ET's it runs.

-At the same race in Stock, I had a run DQ'd because my fuel did not pass fuel check. I have never had my fuel checked in bracket racing. In brackets, you can run racing gas, pump gas, methanol....in Stock, it is accepted racing fuel only.

-Stock requires all cars leave off a footbrake/clutch pedal, off of the bottom bulb, and you must manually shift the car (unless it's a late model EFI car where the computer shifts the car). In brackets, air/electronic shifters, delay boxes, throttle stops and transbrakes are permitted in a few classes.

-I had a run disallowed once in Stock because the car was five pounds too light for the minimum weight for the class I was running in. I've never been asked to weigh at a bracket race.

-I set a few National Records in 2004 in Stock. I had to teardown, have my head, intake, throttle body and camshaft checked to see it was the correct parts, correct year and casting number for the part, that they were not modified in any way, and that they met all the factory specs. Had I failed to meet any of the above, I would have been sent home from the race, and possibly been suspended for several months to a year, depending on how flagrant the violation was. In bracket racing, the only things I've ever had checked were to see if I had a seatbelt, that my battery was secure, and that I had an overflow resevoir. I have to show my NHRA/IHRA membership and competition license to race Stock. In brackets, never once was I asked for any credentials, even a state-issued drivers license.

-In Stock, each car/class has to meet a performance minimum (Class Index). I can not dial-in any slower than that particular standard. In bracket racing, I was never told that I "can not dial slower than _.__ seconds.

-Stock has a tire restriction of nine inches wide, by thirty inches tall. In bracket racing, I can run any size tire. Stock allows no chassis modifications, other than bolt-on traction bars. In brackets, I can run a 4 link suspension. Stock does not permit tubbing for bigger wheels. Bracket racing does.

-I have to run a stock, steel, flat hood in Stock. Bracket racing permits a fiberglass hood with a scoop.

- I have to have a full interior, dashboard, headliner, etc in Stock. In brackets, I can strip everything out that I don't want.

-And, last but not least, there is no advantage to being x-amount fast in bracket racing (unless you want to chase). You just want to be as consistant as possible. In Stock, you want to be consistant, but you need performance for the times you run Class Eliminations or have a Class Run in the eliminator. No shoe polish needed in those cases. Your B/SA bracket car can be the most consistant car in the world, and make 100 runs with .05 seconds. But, if your B/SA bracket car is running 10.90's and you have to run Jim Boudreau or Gary Richard in their B/SA, and they are running 10.40's....well, sorry about your damn luck. 10.90's, and $3 million dollars worth of stock in shoe polish will get you a cup of coffee....and a trip home for the weekend.

I need to talk to my buddy tomorrow. He built a really nice bracket car last year for Super Pro, but admits he's not the best driver, as far as driving the finish line. He asked me to drive it for him next year. It's really sweet. It's an early 1980's Malibu, with a 509 big block on alcohol, Dart heads, Dominator carb, 2.02 Powerglide with air shifter, and a delay box. Fiberglass hood with a Pro Stock-style hood scoop. The car has no interior (sheet metal) except a few gauges, drivers seat, steering wheel and roll cage. 14x33 Goodyear slicks, tubbed, no inner fenderwells in the front, aftermarket lightweight aluminum radiator. The firewall has been altered and moved back an inch. Car is fairly consistant, runs high 10.0's on a really good day, and low 10.20's on a hot, muggy day. Weighs about 2730 pounds, with driver. Sounds like a really neat bracket....err, I mean Stock Eliminator car, since they are the same. I think I'll ask him if we can take it to the first Division 1 open next year and enter it in Stock. Over/under five seconds for the tech guys to laugh their *** off and throw me out, or put me into Super Gas or Super Street? But, they can't throw me out of Stock!! I mean, it's just a ''bracket race''...right?

Oh wait...

[Gary Bouman]

Mike, you hit the nail on the head there. No bracket motor even comes close to sounding like a good stocker motor plus the wheels in the air show. All together different ballgame, but some people think it must be that easy.

[GTX JOHN]

Ditto from us too Mike! Did you mention the distinct possibility of be torn down at ANY given race usually in the rain! Youngest son ( 20 yr. old) torn down 3 of first 7 races he ran this year...first two times before he set turn up wick and set a record.Oldest boy the race before that. We don't bring spares and half the tools to a bracket race or even our work clothes. I sure doesn't feel like bracket racing to us at least.

[danny waters sr]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Yes. And, that two-dollar bottle of shoe polish is about the ONLY similarity between Class Racing and Bracket Racing. I'll simplify it, since I have done both in my day.

-In Stock, I have DNQ'd (did not qualify) at a race, the 2000 Indy Divisional race. 141 cars showed up. Only 128 can qualify. I ended up #138, was not quick enough, and did not get to race. I've never been told in a bracket race that I was not quick enough to race. I showed up, paid, and got to race.

-Stock requires that all cars raced be accepted in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. A minimum of fifty units must have been factory produced for that particular car/engine combination to be eligible to raced. Brackets, pretty much if you can build it, you can run it, as long as it meets safety specs for the ET's it runs.

-At the same race in Stock, I had a run DQ'd because my fuel did not pass fuel check. I have never had my fuel checked in bracket racing. In brackets, you can run racing gas, pump gas, methanol....in Stock, it is accepted racing fuel only.

-Stock requires all cars leave off a footbrake/clutch pedal, off of the bottom bulb, and you must manually shift the car (unless it's a late model EFI car where the computer shifts the car). In brackets, air/electronic shifters, delay boxes, throttle stops and transbrakes are permitted in a few classes.

-I had a run disallowed once in Stock because the car was five pounds too light for the minimum weight for the class I was running in. I've never been asked to weigh at a bracket race.

-I set a few National Records in 2004 in Stock. I had to teardown, have my head, intake, throttle body and camshaft checked to see it was the correct parts, correct year and casting number for the part, that they were not modified in any way, and that they met all the factory specs. Had I failed to meet any of the above, I would have been sent home from the race, and possibly been suspended for several months to a year, depending on how flagrant the violation was. In bracket racing, the only things I've ever had checked were to see if I had a seatbelt, that my battery was secure, and that I had an overflow resevoir. I have to show my NHRA/IHRA membership and competition license to race Stock. In brackets, never once was I asked for any credentials, even a state-issued drivers license.

-In Stock, each car/class has to meet a performance minimum (Class Index). I can not dial-in any slower than that particular standard. In bracket racing, I was never told that I "can not dial slower than _.__ seconds.

-Stock has a tire restriction of nine inches wide, by thirty inches tall. In bracket racing, I can run any size tire. Stock allows no chassis modifications, other than bolt-on traction bars. In brackets, I can run a 4 link suspension. Stock does not permit tubbing for bigger wheels. Bracket racing does.

-I have to run a stock, steel, flat hood in Stock. Bracket racing permits a fiberglass hood with a scoop.

- I have to have a full interior, dashboard, headliner, etc in Stock. In brackets, I can strip everything out that I don't want.

-And, last but not least, there is no advantage to being x-amount fast in bracket racing (unless you want to chase). You just want to be as consistant as possible. In Stock, you want to be consistant, but you need performance for the times you run Class Eliminations or have a Class Run in the eliminator. No shoe polish needed in those cases. Your B/SA bracket car can be the most consistant car in the world, and make 100 runs with .05 seconds. But, if your B/SA bracket car is running 10.90's and you have to run Jim Boudreau or Gary Richard in their B/SA, and they are running 10.40's....well, sorry about your damn luck. 10.90's, and $3 million dollars worth of stock in shoe polish will get you a cup of coffee....and a trip home for the weekend.

I need to talk to my buddy tomorrow. He built a really nice bracket car last year for Super Pro, but admits he's not the best driver, as far as driving the finish line. He asked me to drive it for him next year. It's really sweet. It's an early 1980's Malibu, with a 509 big block on alcohol, Dart heads, Dominator carb, 2.02 Powerglide with air shifter, and a delay box. Fiberglass hood with a Pro Stock-style hood scoop. The car has no interior (sheet metal) except a few gauges, drivers seat, steering wheel and roll cage. 14x33 Goodyear slicks, tubbed, no inner fenderwells in the front, aftermarket lightweight aluminum radiator. The firewall has been altered and moved back an inch. Car is fairly consistant, runs high 10.0's on a really good day, and low 10.20's on a hot, muggy day. Weighs about 2730 pounds, with driver. Sounds like a really neat bracket....err, I mean Stock Eliminator car, since they are the same. I think I'll ask him if we can take it to the first Division 1 open next year and enter it in Stock. Over/under five seconds for the tech guys to laugh their *** off and throw me out, or put me into Super Gas or Super Street? But, they can't throw me out of Stock!! I mean, it's just a ''bracket race''...right?

Oh wait...

Don't forget the ladder that you have to run certain persons per qualifying. Unlike bracket racing as you can hide in the back of the lanes and pick and choose who you think you can beat or split buy-backs (none in stock) . And as Mike saysect ect ect.........Along with 9 pages of stocker rules.

[Stocker 2]

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

[thomas sheehan]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

I guess you're calling Keith Lynch a "non- driver"......... (that's funny right there!)

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

Then after you have met all 9 pages of Stock rules you pull up against a non-driver with deep pockets in a heads up run and he sends you home. Maybe that is a better way to race...if you're the one with deep pockets.

How many bracket racers plan or wish they could run stock or superstock? How many stock/superstock racers wish they could run brackets?
You are trying to level the field by taking the top down. Instead of making the bottom better