Competition Plus DP and CJ article

[Ken Miele]

Arnold,

I was talking about the modern LS engine family. The LS7 from what I have read on the GM Performance website is rated at 505hp and is very similar to the modern 428 CJ. I think a similar rating of 375 with the same type of intake and tb would make for an interesting battle.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Arnold,

I was talking about the modern LS engine family. The LS7 from what I have read on the GM Performance website is rated at 505hp and is very similar to the modern 428 CJ. I think a similar rating of 375 with the same type of intake and tb would make for an interesting battle.

sign me up, if it will fit under the L88 hood on the vette

[Ken Miele]

Alan,

I disagree with you on a few points. In the 60's and early 70's engine options changed every year. There was a new combo coming out all the time, and a smart racer could figure how use that to his advantage.

Money wise, I have said over and over again. I could build a competitive car for 15,000 today. That's the same as spending 2500 in the late 60's.

If you wanted to build a new CJ with a 4.6 3 valve, you could do that for around 25,000 and be a top 5 qualifier anywhere. I don't think that's to much if you compare that to 1960 dollars.

As for as using new parts form a catalog. Everything in my engine is from a catalog except for the block and crank.

I know you want some of the old days back, but that's not going to happen. The new cars have more factory pieces on their cars then I have on mine. I don't see much of a difference between old and new expect for the soft hp ratings for the new cars.

These cars effect me, and my old race car. I'm not parking my car and or selling anything. Although I love the heads up part of racing, the new cars will not effect me that much. The chances of a heads up race in the eliminator is small.

[X-TECH MAN]

But FIRST and foremost you must be able to qualify unless there are less than 128 cars. The more new and under rated cars that show up the less older combos will make it into a large field.

[Ken Miele]

Terry,

I think that's kind of a stretch, except for Indy. Many people on Class Racer like yourself say its getting to expensive to race, and these cars are expensive according to them. NHRA is loosing participants because of they way they are treated, and they are not happy with the new cars hp ratings. If this is all true, I don't think anyone that continues to race with NHRA will have to worry about qualifying.

[Ken Miele]

Alan,

I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. I can see your point with the Chevy, but Ford offered no less then 8 different engines between 1967 and 1970. With very few if any parts that were interchangeable.

The rules of the 60's and 70's were also abused, I see no difference today. I don't think its right, but its the way the world works. You look for an advantage and you use the rules to exploit that advantage. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Alan, like I said, I respectfully disagree and its not a personal thing with me, its just how I see life and racing.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Alan,

I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. I can see your point with the Chevy, but Ford offered no less then 8 different engines between 1967 and 1970. With very few if any parts that were interchangeable.

The rules of the 60's and 70's were also abused, I see no difference today. I don't think its right, but its the way the world works. You look for an advantage and you use the rules to exploit that advantage. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Alan, like I said, I respectfully disagree and its not a personal thing with me, its just how I see life and racing.

Ken I can respect your position. I bear no personal grudge towards any of the guys, or girls, with the new cars, many of them are friends, I like and respect them as well. And I understand the fact that Ford has a lot more combinations with a lot less interchangeability.

Yeah, I can see where the previous rules may have been bent, I suppose.

I have no problem with a racer seeking out a legitimate combination in the guide with an advantage, and exploiting that advantage. That is racing.

The problem I have is with the factories and NHRA exploiting the racers by making the rules and the factors up as they go along to suit them.

Even the wealthiest racer, by himself, on his own budget, can do only so much damage, as there is only one of him. But when you bring the full force of factory money in to exploit their power and funding to the fullest possible extent, that same racer, even if he is the wealthiest, cannot hope to compete with the factories, and is forced to either go with the flow, take a whipping, or quit.

[Sean Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Ken I can respect your position. I bear no personal grudge towards any of the guys, or girls, with the new cars, many of them are friends, I like and respect them as well. And I understand the fact that Ford has a lot more combinations with a lot less interchangeability.

Yeah, I can see where the previous rules may have been bent, I suppose.

I have no problem with a racer seeking out a legitimate combination in the guide with an advantage, and exploiting that advantage. That is racing.

The problem I have is with the factories and NHRA exploiting the racers by making the rules and the factors up as they go along to suit them.

Even the wealthiest racer, by himself, on his own budget, can do only so much damage, as there is only one of him. But when you bring the full force of factory money in to exploit their power and funding to the fullest possible extent, that same racer, even if he is the wealthiest, cannot hope to compete with the factories, and is forced to either go with the flow, take a whipping, or quit.

I could not agree with you more, and am not articulate or smart enough to say it half as well.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Ken Miele

Terry,

I think that's kind of a stretch, except for Indy. Many people on Class Racer like yourself say its getting to expensive to race, and these cars are expensive according to them. NHRA is loosing participants because of they way they are treated, and they are not happy with the new cars hp ratings. If this is all true, I don't think anyone that continues to race with NHRA will have to worry about qualifying.

Very true but Indy is the race of all races and they are ALWAYS loaded with cars. This is the race that counts to a lot of people. By next year there will be more new combos and unless NHRA puts them into their own class, as I have heard, it wont make much sense for any of the upper (and lower) class older cars cars to enter Indy. Whats the use in going if you can not qualify? Not to mention the Div 1 points races and the Keystones are usually packed. .

[MikeFicacci]

I would love to put an LS motor in my Corvette and run stock eliminator with it along with a low rating like the CJ/DP cars. The only problem I have found is that the people over at General Motors (more specifically, GM Racing), don't give a crap about drag racing since the last man in GM Racing that was around for Top Stock. Whoever took over seems more concerned with the C6R program and in-line 4 cylinders out on the salt flats.

The second problem deals with the forced air combinations. I have heard several "chevy" people on here say, "how about the CTS-V LSA rated at 425?" Well...I hope you like looking at tail lights. The problem with the LSA (1.9 liter blower) rated at the same horsepower as the 330 or 281 cube Fords is that the three and four valve engines respond much better with boost so rated at the same horsepower, were still going to get smacked, especially if stock boost is required.

P.S. An LS engine with a 4.0 liter blower sitting on top will fit under the flat C3 corvette hood with plenty of room to spare.