Racing fairness versus Circus attendance - Page 4

FED 387 · 09-21-2010, 07:55 PM

My main thought here is WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO APPEAL TO??? Ya can't please everybody ya gonna make it a regional thing like say the Midwest states or the area East of the Miss River or whatever??? Where you are gonna hold it is going to predicate most likely what geographical you are gonna try and appeal to the most!!!! Of course ANYBODY would be welcome to enter but what is gonna be your target area??? Once ya determine that then you work on entry requirements/fees etc. Where are ya gonna get Sponsors??? Who are ya gonna get to sponsor it??? Ya gonna need a whole lotta little sponsors or some really big ones to pay the expenses as well as provide "winnings monies".---Lotsa things to consider here before ya say let's have a race--------Comp

X-TECH MAN · 09-21-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

My main thought here is WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO APPEAL TO??? Ya can't please everybody ya gonna make it a regional thing like say the Midwest states or the area East of the Miss River or whatever??? Where you are gonna hold it is going to predicate most likely what geographical you are gonna try and appeal to the most!!!! Of course ANYBODY would be welcome to enter but what is gonna be your target area??? Once ya determine that then you work on entry requirements/fees etc. Where are ya gonna get Sponsors??? Who are ya gonna get to sponsor it??? Ya gonna need a whole lotta little sponsors or some really big ones to pay the expenses as well as provide "winnings monies".---Lotsa things to consider here before ya say let's have a race--------Comp

Jegs? Summit? Just thinking out loud. We had a load of cars because the USCN was held the weekend before Indy. Could something like that draw if it was held at another time of the year?

Michael Beard · 09-21-2010, 08:52 PM

The reason I posed the question back is that upon closer inspection when trying to develop real solutions, reality sets in, and you can never get the perfect location, scheduling, and payouts never work out nearly as well as you would like them to. It is impossible to pay back anything substantive to first round winners and pay enough on top that will make people want to attend the race. It's a balancing act, and payouts starting with 3rd round loser are typically best case scenario (for the racer).

In a perfect world, I'd do 3 events, 1 at Norwalk, 1 at No Problem or Montgomery, and 1 somewheres on the west coast, but doing multiple events in itself generates more problems -- while it solves the problem of travel for many people, it also divides EVERYthing else, from potential sponsorships to scheduling opportunities, as well as takes away from the uniqueness of the event. I would say that the original formula of the US Class Nationals as a single stand-alone event is necessary for those very reasons, and its success was self-evident. I think with a single event, people can plan and save for it.

Facility: As mentioned earlier, this is a catch 22 in itself. You need a facility nice enough that people are going to want to come, but the truly top-tier places like Norwalk and Bristol are realistically out of reach financially in order for the event to pay for itself. Bowling Green typically comes up in these discussions, and for good reason. I'd have to do my own research on it, but I've heard 3rd hand that the track rental even at Bowling Green is pretty substantial.

Just thinking out loud, I would take a look at Cordova Dragway Park, in Cordova, IL. Former IHRA national event facility, current NHRA LODRS track. I've worked with both Scott and Laura Gardner when we used to do the Bracket Finals circuit, and these people are flat outstanding. Cordova is less than 1,000 miles from Atco, Rockingham, Atlanta, Baton Rouge, Dallas, and Bandimere.

Schedule: Even if we find what *we* think the perfect date is, you still have to be able to work within a track's schedule and existing events. Summer, "It's too hot!" Um, yeah? It's going to be hot in the summer regardless of whether you're out racing or not. People still go to Indy and everywhere else in the summer. It was bad luck that it was 107 degrees at Byron for the US Class Nationals -- and it *was* nasty, but we look back on it darn near as a badge of honor. LOL It was worth it, for that event.

Event Content: Must-haves: 1) Class Eliminations and 2) The Eliminator (your normal mostly-bracket type deal) I don't think you're getting enough cars out of the woodwork without running Class, and it was undeniably one of the coolest parts about the US Class Nationals. What did you guys think of the Quick 32? Personally, I felt that was the secondary to everything else. Some CIC-style racing is interesting, though. What about running off all the Class Eliminations winners CIC-style for some kind of Grand Champion?

Now, for Class Runoffs: What are you looking for here: Nice trophy, contingency? With so many classes, I don't think you could afford any cash payout on top of it. Could probably get sponsor or event cash to do something Win/RU/Semi for a CIC Grand Champion though. The biggest hurdle is having a single entry fee covering track rental, eliminator payouts, class eliminations awards, among everything else.

Event Schedule: 2 days minimum, 3 days possible. I'd see Friday as a move-in date with tech, and a separate test n' tune available in the evening. Saturday TT & Class, Sunday regular Eliminations.

More later... jump in y'all, throw your ideas in the ring.

Michael Beard · 09-21-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Jegs? Summit? Just thinking out loud. We had a load of cars because the USCN was held the weekend before Indy. Could something like that draw if it was held at another time of the year?

It was before Indy, but not the weekend before.

It was the same weekend as the Mile-Highs.... Here's the original press release: http://www.ihra.com/news/2001/july/17uscn.html (sorry for the broken images... some stuff was lost on the IHRA server over the years)

X-TECH MAN · 09-21-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

It was before Indy, but not the weekend before.

It was the same weekend as the Mile-Highs.... Here's the original press release: http://www.ihra.com/news/2001/july/17uscn.html (sorry for the broken images... some stuff was lost on the IHRA server over the years)

Your correct Mike.....I had a CRS attack for a moment......lol. Its been what.......about 10 years and the heat cooked my brain.

Adger Smith · 09-21-2010, 09:26 PM

Yea, Terry it was so hot you thought it was August instead of July...
Are we too old to stand the heat, now...???

X-TECH MAN · 09-21-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

Yea, Terry it was so hot you thought it was August instead of July...
Are we too old to stand the heat, now...???

I think so Adger. I usually do what I want to do here before noon and take a nap in the afternoons in the A/C.....heh heh. 10 years does make a difference and Im glad we did it when we did. Everyone worked their butts off in that heat but it was something kind of like "WoodStock".

Adger Smith · 09-21-2010, 09:49 PM

How about another Class Racer "Woodstock' at Cordova??? I would like to return to the track where I died!! Might bring me luck... Can't get any worse!! Hey, May in Cordova is nice and cool..

Michael Kilduff · 09-21-2010, 10:07 PM

Getting spectators in the gate will go a long way to increasing payouts and making the event profitable. Maybe free admission and no coolers allowed for spectators, stay reasonable on prices at the concession stand.

Whereever the event(s) are held it would be a good idea to entice racers to put their cars on display where they can be visible to the public. A day or two before the race put cars on display in shopping centers, malls, auto parts stores, etc...give away free tickets where the cars are, people love the word FREE. The promoters could offer the businesses that agree to a display a free banner at the track, advertising on flyers, etc.....A live radio remote at the track on saturday morning would be an idea as well. I have been to a divisional NHRA race at Richmond when free tickets were offered at NAPA stores or somewhere and the place was packed almost like a national event.

Get creative and just get people there. 3000 spectators spending 8-10 bucks on food/drinks is better than 100 spectators paying 10 bucks to get in the gate.

You could entice racers to put their cars on display with things like premium parking (ie pavement) and that in itself would be attractive with 400 plus cars on the property.

A track where spectators can get fairly close to the action should get special consideration. I've been a spectator at over 50 national events over the last 20 years, fans are much more energized if they are closer to the action.

FED 387 · 09-21-2010, 10:30 PM

Cordova would be OK Also more lodging in the vicinity for racers to stay if they do not have a RV-- Byron has a CURFEW situation that severely limits the hours of racing when you get lotsa cars.

09-21-2010, 07:55 PM	#31
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 532 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance My main thought here is WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO APPEAL TO??? Ya can't please everybody ya gonna make it a regional thing like say the Midwest states or the area East of the Miss River or whatever??? Where you are gonna hold it is going to predicate most likely what geographical you are gonna try and appeal to the most!!!! Of course ANYBODY would be welcome to enter but what is gonna be your target area??? Once ya determine that then you work on entry requirements/fees etc. Where are ya gonna get Sponsors??? Who are ya gonna get to sponsor it??? Ya gonna need a whole lotta little sponsors or some really big ones to pay the expenses as well as provide "winnings monies".---Lotsa things to consider here before ya say let's have a race--------Comp

09-21-2010, 08:52 PM	#33
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance The reason I posed the question back is that upon closer inspection when trying to develop real solutions, reality sets in, and you can never get the perfect location, scheduling, and payouts never work out nearly as well as you would like them to. It is impossible to pay back anything substantive to first round winners and pay enough on top that will make people want to attend the race. It's a balancing act, and payouts starting with 3rd round loser are typically best case scenario (for the racer). In a perfect world, I'd do 3 events, 1 at Norwalk, 1 at No Problem or Montgomery, and 1 somewheres on the west coast, but doing multiple events in itself generates more problems -- while it solves the problem of travel for many people, it also divides EVERYthing else, from potential sponsorships to scheduling opportunities, as well as takes away from the uniqueness of the event. I would say that the original formula of the US Class Nationals as a single stand-alone event is necessary for those very reasons, and its success was self-evident. I think with a single event, people can plan and save for it. Facility: As mentioned earlier, this is a catch 22 in itself. You need a facility nice enough that people are going to want to come, but the truly top-tier places like Norwalk and Bristol are realistically out of reach financially in order for the event to pay for itself. Bowling Green typically comes up in these discussions, and for good reason. I'd have to do my own research on it, but I've heard 3rd hand that the track rental even at Bowling Green is pretty substantial. Just thinking out loud, I would take a look at Cordova Dragway Park, in Cordova, IL. Former IHRA national event facility, current NHRA LODRS track. I've worked with both Scott and Laura Gardner when we used to do the Bracket Finals circuit, and these people are flat outstanding. Cordova is less than 1,000 miles from Atco, Rockingham, Atlanta, Baton Rouge, Dallas, and Bandimere. Schedule: Even if we find what we think the perfect date is, you still have to be able to work within a track's schedule and existing events. Summer, "It's too hot!" Um, yeah? It's going to be hot in the summer regardless of whether you're out racing or not. People still go to Indy and everywhere else in the summer. It was bad luck that it was 107 degrees at Byron for the US Class Nationals -- and it was nasty, but we look back on it darn near as a badge of honor. LOL It was worth it, for that event. Event Content: Must-haves: 1) Class Eliminations and 2) The Eliminator (your normal mostly-bracket type deal) I don't think you're getting enough cars out of the woodwork without running Class, and it was undeniably one of the coolest parts about the US Class Nationals. What did you guys think of the Quick 32? Personally, I felt that was the secondary to everything else. Some CIC-style racing is interesting, though. What about running off all the Class Eliminations winners CIC-style for some kind of Grand Champion? Now, for Class Runoffs: What are you looking for here: Nice trophy, contingency? With so many classes, I don't think you could afford any cash payout on top of it. Could probably get sponsor or event cash to do something Win/RU/Semi for a CIC Grand Champion though. The biggest hurdle is having a single entry fee covering track rental, eliminator payouts, class eliminations awards, among everything else. Event Schedule: 2 days minimum, 3 days possible. I'd see Friday as a move-in date with tech, and a separate test n' tune available in the evening. Saturday TT & Class, Sunday regular Eliminations. More later... jump in y'all, throw your ideas in the ring. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-21-2010, 09:26 PM	#36
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance Yea, Terry it was so hot you thought it was August instead of July... Are we too old to stand the heat, now...??? __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

09-21-2010, 09:49 PM	#38
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance How about another Class Racer "Woodstock' at Cordova??? I would like to return to the track where I died!! Might bring me luck... Can't get any worse!! Hey, May in Cordova is nice and cool.. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

09-21-2010, 10:07 PM	#39
Michael Kilduff Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 281 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance Getting spectators in the gate will go a long way to increasing payouts and making the event profitable. Maybe free admission and no coolers allowed for spectators, stay reasonable on prices at the concession stand. Whereever the event(s) are held it would be a good idea to entice racers to put their cars on display where they can be visible to the public. A day or two before the race put cars on display in shopping centers, malls, auto parts stores, etc...give away free tickets where the cars are, people love the word FREE. The promoters could offer the businesses that agree to a display a free banner at the track, advertising on flyers, etc.....A live radio remote at the track on saturday morning would be an idea as well. I have been to a divisional NHRA race at Richmond when free tickets were offered at NAPA stores or somewhere and the place was packed almost like a national event. Get creative and just get people there. 3000 spectators spending 8-10 bucks on food/drinks is better than 100 spectators paying 10 bucks to get in the gate. You could entice racers to put their cars on display with things like premium parking (ie pavement) and that in itself would be attractive with 400 plus cars on the property. A track where spectators can get fairly close to the action should get special consideration. I've been a spectator at over 50 national events over the last 20 years, fans are much more energized if they are closer to the action.

09-21-2010, 10:30 PM	#40
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,422 Likes: 532 Liked 333 Times in 180 Posts	Re: Racing fairness versus Circus attendance Cordova would be OK Also more lodging in the vicinity for racers to stay if they do not have a RV-- Byron has a CURFEW situation that severely limits the hours of racing when you get lotsa cars.