top 3 things i miss the most about stock

[Frank Castros]

I too miss the old days. I wish NHRA never changed the cam rule which in my opinion changed everything. But, I envy everyone of you that stills races today. I sold my race car 15 years ago for all the right reasons and I have regretted it everyday since.
Guys, enjoy it while you can!

[Robert Swartz]

Originally Posted by Frank Castros

I too miss the old days. I wish NHRA never changed the cam rule which in my opinion changed everything. But, I envy everyone of you that stills races today. I sold my race car 15 years ago for all the right reasons and I have regretted it everyday since.
Guys, enjoy it while you can!

As someone hoping to return to racing. I've found this thread to be quite interesting. I cut my teeth cut as a pup on stock eliminator. The guys that took me under their wing were a couple of the hardest working guys I've ever had the priviledge to know, Toby and Kenny Meek. They worked their collective as@%$ off to earn their stripes. It paid off with quite a few class wins and a handful of national records in both NHRA and IHRA in the 70's. Back then the national record WAS your standard. Any car able to run under the record was a car to reckoned with. Teardown at a national or divisional was something you expected and dealt with. It wasn't a pleasent thing to be bounced from tech.

Looking back in reflection. Their car wasn't that trick. Back then, you could still build a car from junkyard parts. It's a lot more difficult today. 90% of what I've ammassed(sic?) for my 79 Firebird IHRA car has been swap meet "junk" and other peoples castoffs. As well as pieces I've acquired over the internet forums (both here and on RJ). With everything I keep reading, I wonder IF it's going to be worth building this car. Yes it is an IHRA crate motor car, which that seems to be looked down upon by many on the forum. A), I can afford, at least think I can, to build it, B) once I get the ball rolling, it will take less time to get it to the track.

I'll admit racing was always a lot of hard work and cost a tremendous amount of money. In fact not too very long ago, Toby Meek asked my wife, WHY is Bob building another race car after 20 years? Doesn't he remember how expensive it was? The thing is, racing was fun.

Maybe I should have my head examined. The cost factor started making it less fun back then. Not just the cost of a car but tow rigs added to the cost. I remember when a crew cab pickup was the thing (late 1970's), then the enclosed trailers came into vogue (1980's). When we were bracket racing in the late 80's, most people had more in their tow rigs than I had in my whole operation. Now I go to the track, I see motorhomes and semi's, LOL! If I were blessed with that kind of cash, I could have a killer operation.

I too remember when cars were driven to the track. I won a couple of class trophies with my 74 Pinto. Through the muffler, Crager SS wheels with street tires. Trickest thing about that car was the tuneup. Even back then at the local track, you had to race 3-4 rounds just to get into the eliminator. I even remember when it wasn't unusual to see steel wheels on SS and MP cars.

It isn't the 1970's anymore or even the 1980's for that matter. I have realised, one axiom is still true about racing, "it still hasn't gotten any cheaper"!

Not certain I've added anything to the thread but guess I've had my vent for the day. I feel I understand where Jack is coming from.

[FINESPLINE]

Originally Posted by frank castros

i too miss the old days. I wish nhra never changed the cam rule which in my opinion changed everything. But, i envy everyone of you that stills races today. I sold my race car 15 years ago for all the right reasons and i have regretted it everyday since.
Guys, enjoy it while you can!

Thank you Frank-----it opened up Pandora's box.

[Dean3870]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

AMEN to this post ! Thank you Jack.

Jack this may be one of the all time best posts i have seen on this site, and hell im only 30. but i watched my father work is a@@ off in the shop to run 3 to 4 tenths under, and back then that was on the top of the sheet. I finaly got the 455 for my car and am going to build it, and i know i dont have a chance to be a quick car for many years if ever. Growing up stock eliminator was all i knew sleeping in the back of a suburban in a mall parking lot waiting to get creds. god those were the best time of my life. And the greatest part of it all is getting to go racing with my dad and people like you jack so to you and all the ones like you, i say THANK YOU

Mike Dean G/SA 3870

[Ken Miele]

Jack,

With all due respect to your 35 years of racing with NHRA. You talk about the lack of respect for your fellow racers. Charley in no way insulted you or disrespected you in his reply. Unfortunately you felt the need to slam Charley, and follow it up with a "I never intended to bash Charley", obviously you did.

I am not going to assassinate you, you did a find job all by yourself. You say there was more integrity and respect in the past, I guess you lost a little of that through the years.

You say its more expensive, I say its relative to the times we are in.

I know racers that have been running stock for over 40 years and do not have the same opinion as yours. They are not bashing others that may have had more then they had when they were young.

The internet is a great way to reach many people and express the way you feel, but civility and respect for others should go hand in hand. Please don't let yourself be jaded by the past, because the past is just that..... the past.

[Bunkster]

Originally Posted by Dean3870

...but i watched my father work is a@@ off in the shop to run 3 to 4 tenths under, and back then that was on the top of the sheet....

Are you referencing the great…the world famous….the almighty….Roy Dean, and his faithful pal Harlen Updike….of R/SA fame?

[Dean3870]

Originally Posted by Bunkster

Are you referencing the great…the world famous….the almighty….Roy Dean, and his faithful pal Harlen Updike….of R/SA fame?

Yes i am! they may not have the money, but you wont find any ont that works any harder. well harlin might need to do a little maint. on the old wagon! lol

[Dwight Southerland]

Jack, I'm not here to bash you or anyone who has nostalgic memories of racing in the "old days"; I was there, too, and it was an era that afforded good experiences. However, maybe time has smoothed over some of the reality of those times so that now our memories are more romantic impressions, tainted by remembering the good and choosing to filter out the bad.

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

i miss the integrity of the racers (im not going to discuss the integrity of NHRA greg hill has that post)...we had TEARDOWNS at EVERY race not just indy and going through the barn was critical to your reputation and the respect given to you by the other racers... and getting tossed (and ive been tossed) was embarrassing to you and your family. today its no big thing to get caught with cheating parts... just lobby to change the rules and act like you were picked on by NHRA with the old"everyone else does it" excuse.

Integrity?? Really?? Why do you think they had teardowns at every race?? Do you think they were showing what lily-white knights everybody was?? Hell, no! When Wally gave Farmer the job as National Tech DIrector, Farmer said the only way he would take the job would be if Wally would back him up on every decision he made. He and Wally knew that widespread cheating was preventing the sport from growing. Stock and Super Stock (and Gas classes and Competition eliminator) was being overrun with so much cheating across the country that the openly obvious unfairness for local participants was driving competitors away. Local tech people were no match for the schemers and cheaters. Can you imagine trying to keep up with what the factories were turning out each year in the early 60s with no tech specs and no place to get information? It took years to get the classification and tech information systems that define our racing organized and working to give some standard definition to the stock classes. Before that happened there was so much cheating and no way to control it that every winner was assumed to be a cheater. Cheating has always been the bane of every technically-based sport, so don't think we are living in unique times. We are all schemers, looking for an advantage. Reputations were built following the the teardowns, but character was not.

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

i miss the decency of our class... maybe it is the internet's fault, maybe it is society's changing morals but what the hell happened ? every time i log onto this / other forums i see jealous, whining, accusing posts. rarely is credit given. bob shaw has an outstanding record kicking my *** in several combinations, yeah ive given him fits and won a couple of races and i could whine with the best of them, accuse him of cheating, protest him but hey i RESPECT him... that seems to be gone.

This doesn't seem to be any different today than it ever was. The internet provides a venue so that more people have access to the belly-aching and poor-mouthing that people spit out, but that's about it. I worked in a speed shop for a little while earlier on in my life when Stock, Super Stock, Modified were hotly contested every weekend at some local track and the same type of whining, accusing, name calling crap that you read on this forum went on every week as the racers would come into the shop, and I contributed my share. Luckily, the little groups and factions then were pretty well isolated to themselves so their foolishness rarely was a public issue. Now, as a result of improved communications, the whole racer community can hear that kind of crap.
The respect level is still there. You may not see it written in people's posts here, but I know it still exists in the face-to-face interaction at the races. You would not have the congratulatory posts that are so common here, or posts like the recent one praising the performance of Wade Owens if respect had gone away. And you have to give respect to be positioned to receive it.

So, Jack, I think everything you mentioned in your post is probably true. But, it has always been that way; it depends whether you want to see a half-full glass or a half-empty glass. My saying that does not mean I think everything is hunky-dory with class racing and that nobody should do or say anything. Without people working within the sport, it would have disintegrated a long time ago. We have to keep pushing to make it better.

Relative increased cost of competing is the biggest detriment to the sport. Too much emphasis and hoopla on the "glory" of going fast at any cost is another, but if you do away with heads-up competition the attraction for the competitor will rapidly diminish. NHRA makes lots of mistakes, but that is the nature of trusting systems and organizations - their ability to administer will eventually be reduced to the lowest common factor. Fools and people with no character will always invade public arenas, so support and add to a culture that makes them ineffective because rules won't.

I do think the sport could benefit from some competitor-level attitude adjustments and moral reformations, though.

[Paul Ceasrine]

Drag racing is a different world today.
Just because some of us enjoyed the way it used to be, it doesn't
mean we are 'belly-aching',,,,,,,,O.K. maybe a little.
It just means we liked it better in the late 60's and early 70's.

The good thing, is that there is input, from current racers, older racers and wanna-be racers, and of course 'internet racers'.

Me, I still think the 1968 season was the best. Super/Stock was limited to (5) classes SS/B thru SS/F. Even though many cars were factory-backed, quite a few little guys could knock-out the big guns at their local tracks.

Food-For-Thought,,
In 1968, 77% of all cars that participated at drag strips were in STOCK CLASS. And just who got treated like 'second-class-citizens'?
pc

[SS Engine Guy]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

It seems there are a lot of old-timers on here, and with all due respect, maybe they are just burned out and need an excuse to quit. I get it, NHRA tech isn't perfect, there are underfactored combos, the economy sucks, etc. But blaming NHRA for every single issue is lame.


Evan

and maybe they are just old enough and experienced enough and not "kiss *****" enough to know BS when they see it.

-No tech will ever be perfect but it should be unbiased and the rules should be clear and strictly enforced.
-There will always be underfactored combos but there should never be laughable underfactored combos.
-The economy sucks because voters listened to politicians with hidden motives when they should have been voting them out.